Russell Brand Ridicules Mainstream Media Anchors on MSNBC (video)



The least I can say about Russell Brand is that he’s a polarizing figure – one who probably has as many fans as he has detractors. Whether you love him or hate him however, one can’t deny that he has a way with words and that he’s clearly aware of mass media manipulation and agenda setting. Place him with three stiff, robotic and vapid mainstream news anchors and what do you get? A complete meltdown of the media robots who cannot deal with a shred of awareness, intelligence and, let’s say it, humanity.

Also, notice how the anchors completely avoid the NSA whistle-blower topic.

In a strange and hilarious way, this short video highlights the soulless, sterile and insipid nature of mainstream media and how it is geared to constantly redirect important issues to pointless and mindless chatter.



  1. Genius! Wonderful! Hilarious! I love him to pieces. He's way more enlightened than he comes across in his work. He's very intelligent.

    • MediaRotsYourBrain on

      I take back some of the things I thought about Russell Brand. I thought he was a complete idiot…..he's a lot more intelligent than he puts out to be. He's a lot more self aware than I originally thought. I still think he's a tool but then again it's laughable that he broke up with Katy Perry by a text. Guess he got tired of the BS marriage that was organized by the media. It was a doomed venture but now I see that the issue might have been he was too smart to be with Perry where as before I thought they were both idiots.

      • If I'm not mistaken "Mika" is the one in the blue? I think Enrico is referring to how she was acting while drinking her water. It appears she was losing control of her body or something.

      • for real! i'm pretty sure she took a xanax on set… you can see her swallowing water and it looks like something's in her mouth. i guess that's what happens when the pawns interact with sources of pure light.

      • I'd say she was attracted to him, so she was uncomfortable and nervous. Russell was confident and aggressive and pretty handsome in this interview. And he has a British accent AND this was her first time "experiencing him?!" She prob had a vague, unpleasant impression of him from watching ET or Access Hollywood. Mika underestimated him, and I believe she was taken COMpletely off guard. I think they ALL were.

        Haven't any of you guys ever been around someone who steps into your atmosphere and takes full control? They say what they mean and mean what they say? Completely takes you off guard?

        For goodness sakes, he's a comedian! Who knew he'd go political?! I didn't expect the guy to go there. It wasn't in their plans. They were only expecting to discuss his new comedic tour and his career life.. maybe his personal life, and here he comes speaking intellectually, with a vocabulary I'm vaguely familiar with, being funny, and shockingly, SHOCKingly clever (sorry, I never saw him as erm all too smart…).

        What happens when you stereotype someone one way, and when you meet them, they BLOW you out of the water? You get nervous, uncomfortable, caught off guard, and you look for lighter subject matter. Not that they should've been so.. awkward; they're newscasters! They should've been prepared for ANYthing, so I'm not sticking up for them, necessarily.

        Anyways, I don't think she was MK-ed, I think she was just surprised, bad at faking it, and completely unprofessional, good lord! & the way he and Mika kept looking at each other..

        One could tell Russell didn't seem to care for her from the start, but after she blamed her nerves, he was more understanding and kind. & at the end, he was teasing her about how she was holding the bottle, a "shaft grabber"… xD

        And he'd called her out about her low cut top and all the cleavage showing, making her self conscious. Also, when he talked about how they shouldn't care about the superficial things, the camera pans to her & we see her touching her hair and pretending to listen intensely. She had a total sexual attraction for him, and frankly, by the time he finished pwning them, I had one too xD but i've always had a light crush on him, my bf thinks I'm crazy xD

        So please, you guys, let's stay human here. Not everything is a conspiracy, some of it's basic personality analyses and putting yourself in other people's shoes.

      • Or basic denial and ignorance, don't take it for granted. It's an evolutionary trait that's been manifested to deal with the struggle to believe that truth.

      • Mika would not be a programmed slave as she is the daughter of Zbigniew Brzezenski who is the co-founder of the Trilateral Commission and of Polish nobility. He is top dog and his daughter would not be a slave. These children go through a different milder type of programming than the slaves according to Fritz Springmeier.

    • Russell was too cool and eccentric for Katy, dude was smart to be with her. I love Russell sense of humor brilliant . Russell isn't a twat he's too smart lol The reporters didn't see that coming.

      • Katy is with someone who is more her speed now-John Mayer. However, why would Russell marry her in the first place if he was so smart and she was so dumb.

      • She isn't dumb. He married her to become famous stateside. Besides, he doesn't know what he wants except for fame. One of his old friends was saying that he was always ambitious. He wanted fame very badly and K Perry was one of his ways to achieve it in my view. He's known as K Perry's ex-husband.

    • not surprised on

      Most celebs are intelligent. Creative types tend to be on the high side of intellect and critical thinking. (I am one of them.) Of course the images that the entertainment industry are trying to promote are the ones that lead to heedless, foolish, and juvenile thinking and behaviors. Yes, I have met some of them and they are unfortunately unable to share their insights in the public because they are making money for the machine. But most I have met are very sound in thinking and have talent that goes way beyond what the media outlets allow for showing. Many of these celebrities have other skills and abilities that they are unable to display because it "hurts their image". Russell is supposed to be seen as a lively and swell headed bloke, but it does not surprise me that he is keen.

    • He's extremely intelligent, well read, smart, witty, and remarkarbly alive!! As well as compassionate and spiritual… I noticed there was a little icon reading 'Messiah Complex' he almost reminds me of a modern day Jesus Christ the way he just blows sterility out of society…

    • Wait…I watched the whole thing and he was deflecting to silly commentary as much as they were. Am I missing something?

      • Saddle Curve on

        He contributed to the off-tracks, yes. It's obvious though that he soon became discontent with them, as he soon realized that the discussion was going nowhere. Serious topics were invoked by either side, but who were the ones to pull away from the matters at hand? The anchors. And who was the one who consistently tried to steer it back on track?

      • WAKE UP BRAND IS A MIND CONTROL HANDLER AND TOOL OF THE ILLUMINATI…plain and simple, and it's extremely well known and obvious. The man is a gimmick and fake.

  2. Shaun on

    Nice to see more media insiders not playing along with the freak show.
    Shine light on the dark.

    • Russell Brand is a known mind control handler and controlled opposition bozo. To think he's smart, you've got to be pretty dumb.

  3. I don't really care for Russel Brand but this was hilarious. Those anchors did not know what to do with themselves.

    • I never liked his comedy, but this was pretty great. Seems legitimately irritated at the state of affairs.

  4. it's strange because sometimes he is so creepy and is seemingly used by the media – doing ridiculous movies, marrying katy perry, etc – but there's definitely alot of strength and depth to him as a person regardless.

    i love how the bottom feed is stating the obvious: how he is ripping apart the newsroom and making fun of everything HAHA. this was very good.

    the new alex jones vs piers morgan? jkjk

      • "what do you think that gesture means, the way you're touching that bottle? what does that indicate, what's the subtext of that? you better lose that ring mika because it don't mean nothing to ya!! she's grasping for the shaft, she's a shaft grasper!!!"


    • He may have married Katy Perry (whom I hate, not just cuz she took him πŸ˜‰ but just cuz… she is so 'mainstream' and 'corporate pop princess' but don't forget he divorced her! I think in a way they 'sent' her to manipulate him, not maybe intentionally, but it is all unconccious processes in the Universe… anyway, I feel he was purely sincere in his love for her, but I think she wanted to try to turn him away from all his spirituality and he wouldn't have it… she even tried to bad mouth him after the divorce, which shows her character, he did nothing of the kind…. so, there…! And the media always 'uses' anyone and everyone they can, that is a given, but the one being used doesn't always go along with it, if you look deeper though, as silly as his movies are, there is always an element of some kind of spirituality or message to it… the 'silliness' is just his way of deliving material, it's his nature… he is like the truthful jester… in the sterile royal court, mixing it up…

  5. Looks like Russell really unsettled Mika. I would not be surprised if she had a couple of shots of whiskey after that segment. Kinda like Russell when he's not being skeezy, he's very quick, articulate, intelligent, and funny.

  6. The Norwalk Avenger on

    This is what a court jester used to do. He was always the smartest person in the room, and he was the only person who was allowed to insult the King without losing his head.


    • Well spotted. I made the Jester comment elsewhere the other day. Your explanation chomps on the core.

      All that glitters is not gold.

      Not forgetting whose daughter he was psychometrically warming. -Daddy does get to hear everything after all.

      • Care to elaborate? I don't get what you are saying in the last paragraph, beginning with "Not forgetting…"

  7. He and Jim Carrey act the same. Quirky, yet 'enlightened'. Of the 5 or so men he named who has died for a cause, only one rose from the dead, The Messiah: Jesus. That's where he isn't so enlightened. You cannot lump him in a category, he stands far above.

    • H. Trismigistus on

      The irony that you are on a conspiracy forum, that uncovers the inner working of the elite. The very elite that has controlled all forms of human commerce, education, entertainment, thinking and religion from the inception of mankind. Yet you believe in the solar myth of a man name "Jesus" who died for 3 days, then raised from the dead, walked on dense water, turn water to wine, raised the dead, and died for all humanity on a cross. If you believe such fairtales, such as talking snakes, magical trees that bare eternal fruits, a big boat carrying all creatures on the planet inside, then man o man, have you missed the point of that this site is trying to convey. Russell was a genius in this segment, the discomfort among these people was so obvious it was embarrassing.

      • ChristisLife on

        What has happen to the world that we no longer believe in Jesus? It is these such comments of ignorance that saddens me. It empowers the self-proclaimed elite, because it is this form of ignorance that makes them believe they are so much more illuminated than the rest of the masses. Can't you see? This is exactly a part of their agenda. Everything they do, their plots and schemes, are all designed in total opposition to God. They are trying to play the role as if they are God because they believe they too, are gods. You can't be confined to just reading articles on VC and automatically think you know what the elite are trying to do. Even they believe in Jesus, they are smart enough to know that Jesus is certainly no fairy tale. That is just another lie told to confuse people into madness and eliminate all forms of hope. Hope! It is the essential element of what we need in this wicked world. Jesus brings hope in this world. You will believe in the elite and their evil and insidious plans, but you say Jesus, a man that brought hope and love to the world and came to save those were/are lost, is merely a fairy tale. But you will believe in the elite based on VC articles, but you won't believe in Jesus, the one who, believe it or not, put breathe into your body. But you'd rather believe in evil than in good…

        The point is – don't lose hope! Don't let them take that away from you. It is just another trick. I urge you research Alice Bailey and her book entitled, The Externalization of the Hierarchy. As crazy and wicked as this lady was, she too, realizes the existence of Christ, which is why she opposes Him in her book. The book maps out the elite's plan for the NWO, including the coming of the AntiChrist. You have to dig deeper, we can't look just on the surface anymore!

      • Christianity is about idolizing a human called Jesus of Nazareth first, which is an abomination.
        Besides, believing that NWO exist is naive to do so. There are literally billions of Anti-Christs on this planet. You clearly have no idea where you are living at…

      • Jesus was the fullness of God manifested in the flesh. God sent his own son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. Romans 8:3 You have to first understand the theology before you try to criticize it.

      • Let's back up a bit. God, who according to Christian doctrine is perfect and knows all, created humans that sin. So either God willfully created humans knowing they'd be sinful creatures, or he screwed up (which with the Christian line of logic would infer he's not God). Further he then sent his son to die for those creatures he willfully created imperfect. Now that right there should be cause for concern. I create a sinful creation and by the rules I've set in place, I'm obligated to send my son to die for what I created. That alone should be cause for concern.

        Then this son is God in flesh. So all the attributes that go with God, go with his son. Perfection, infinite, all powerful, really never truly dying…all these are attributes of Jesus since he's God. So Jesus dying as God is really not that much of a feat. Death and suffering to Jesus is not the same as death and suffering to you and I. Now you can say, "Well he came in human form." Yeah true, but by choice and knowing what he'd endure on earth. Even more Jesus as God would have forseen all this at creation and even put in motion all the events that ultimately led to his fleshly death. That's not really spectacular. That's like me setting my friends up to be robbed and then coming in and beating up the robbers so I can look like a hero.

        Now I expect a free will rebuttal to be brewing up on your part, so let me cut it off. Christians believe in Heaven where all will be good and holy. So where's free will there? Some may say all who go to Heaven will choose to obey God and be holy. Well why not skip the whole earth thing? Why didn't God just skip to creating Heaven and leave out the pain and suffering of being a human on earth? Further, I really don't have a choice in "being sinful." By Biblical rules, I'm automatically sinful. Where's the free will in that?

        This is just a warm-up on all the logical holes that exist within Christian doctrine. And I've just stuck to God and Jesus. Never mind why'd God create Lucifer? Why does God sit idly by and watch children endure horrible suffering? Why are magicians present at Christ's birth bearing gifts used in the occult?

        I've debated both preachers and Christian apologists and every time their eventual answer is "that's not for us to know." But I think the answer is deeper than that. Christian doctrine has no logical foundation and it's believed out of fear. Despite it's gaping holes, Christians cling onto their faith out of fear of going to hell and fear of having to find their own path toward spiritual enlightenment.

        If I'm wrong, then this is a challenge to all Christians. Logically answer the questions above and prove that your religion has an intellectual foundation for belief. No ad hominem attacks and no appeals to emotions, but a logical refutation of the points I've laid out. I won't hold my breath.

        Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -Epicurus

      • Just as much to you it doesn't make sense to you there's a God, it doesn't make sense to me there wouldn't be a God. I feel as though we as humans will not have the answer to everything or even understand certain things, why things are the way they are. Only God has an answer to these things, and maybe these answers are revealed to certain individuals or we are not spiritually mature enough to understand. Nonetheless, I don't question God because I am only human and God is all powerful and all knowing so therefore has a purpose in everything. We may not understand His plan or purpose for humanity but if you allow yourself to trust in God you will trust that there is a good in His plans.
        Evolution makes no sense to me because how did we come into existence if there is no creator. According to evolution we came into existence from the big bang theory. Well it doesn't make sense to me we came from dust particles. I mean even if we did, scientists agree there is intelligent design. Also, how could there be a beginning without a source of that beginning? The big bang came from somewhere, it could not have come from nowhere. Also, back to the subject of intelligent design. If you look around us, humans all look different, the planets in our solar system all are different. "the appearance of complexity in nature cannot be explained and requires the agent of an intelligent agent."
        Also, where does the range of our emotions come from. Are we like robots and supposed to be devoid of emotions, feelings of love, compassion, sadness, joy, happiness. Through the complexity of this world I don't question God. Rather I trust in God's plan for us, and the end result will be good. We may not understand all of God's plans, but I feel those things require spiritual maturity to understand.

      • First off you've changed the subject rather than addressing my argument. I'm not making a case for evolution. I could make a case, but it's much easier to disprove Christianity making a case against the Bible's God based on the presence of evil.

        Second off I never said I don't believe in God. I just don't believe in the Christian God or any other anthropomorphized God. Humans creating God in their own image (as in Judaic religions) is ridiculous and done to make everything fit neatly in a box.

        Lastly, I'm assuming you believe in the Bible's God based on your line of reasoning. If God's plan is for good why so much evil and suffering? Your God can't be good if he willfully sits back as an omnipotent being and watches his creation suffer.

        As someone who grew up in the church, there comes a point when Christians have to cover their ears, shut their eyes and just chant, "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe," because to logically evaluate their position reveals how ridiculous their religion is. Good luck with your chanting.

      • First of all, I wasn't trying to change the subject. I guess I had assumed you didn't believe in a God because of the overall tone of your comment. Second of all, there's no need to ridicule others and act rude just because someone else has a different viewpoint from yours. Lastly, you don't need to group Christians and separate us from others like something is wrong with us. It is extremely insulting. I have my beliefs and you have yours but I don't go around making other people feel inferior than myself just because their beliefs are different. I think you can inquire about someone's beliefs without sounding rude and insulting. I really don't have much to say to you Jason because you're one of those people who doesn't have an open mind to even have a respectful discussion/ debate with. I'm not even going to waste anymore of my time. You go ahead and go on about your business but at least have the decency to be civil towards others who have different beliefs than you. One last thing, if you really do believe in a higher power how would you know that that higher power would allow evil and suffering for a certain time? Our knowledge is supposedly limited because there IS a higher power and we don't have the capacity as humans to understand those things. It is through your ego, arrogance, and ignorance Jason, that you would question such things.

      • My apologies for the last paragraph about chanting. That was rude, arrogant and uncalled for. With all due respect, when you look at the argument I've laid out and really examine the creation of evil, there's no other alternative than to lay the responsibility of evil and all that comes with it a God's feet. If God created everything, then that has to include evil. If God didn't create evil, then he didn't create everything and he is not God.

        – "It is through your ego, arrogance, and ignorance Jason, that you would question such things." So are you're saying that being a good Christian means not using the rational mind God gave you and not questioning things because if you do you are arrogant and ignorant?

        – "I have my beliefs and you have yours but I don't go around making other people feel inferior than myself just because their beliefs are different." Christians and the Bible straight up tell people that if they don't subscribe to their belief, they are going to burn in hell.

      • Jason, this subject would take take up too much space to discuss, talk about. I am still learning about these sort of topics, ofcourse I will not have all the answers, nor do I claim I will. It is a complex subject to talk about with complex answers. Some people will not be able to comprehend the answers they are given either, and maybe not even accept them. Some things either make sense to a person or they dont. You can spend your lifetime explaining your beliefs to someone, but if it doesn't sound logical to someone else then there's no convincing them to believe what I believe. My understanding of something is different than the next person since we are all different people. As far as your last comment about hell…I have not been threatened to feel that way. I focus on a personal relationship with God, rather than someone who tries to intimidate me or make me feel bad.

      • Jason, Jason I think you'll find out that many people who are brought up as Christians know deep down that are profoundly hypocritical and judgemental. Christ and His teachings were beyond perfection, there is nothing as perfect and wise. Nonetheless, it's painfully difficult to live according to the teachings. I don't know but my gut feeling is that Christians are going to be judged even more than the rest as they are the ones who are supposed to know what is right from wrong. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

      • Question everythig you want, however don't get disappointed by the lack of answers. As a monk was saying that while he had numerous questions regarding such matters, an angel appeared and explained to him that a bucket cannot contain the whole ocean, similarly his brain doesn't have the ability to understand everything.

      • the lie of the enemy satan is that God either doesn't exist or that He is the bad guy. God created everything in the beginning and He said it was good. satan wanted God's glory and majesty for himself and started lobbying some the angels against Him and he lobbied adam & eve as well. for that reason everything was cursed and is why everything is so bleak these days. the enemy wants to kill, steal and destroy! God is going to deal with him in due time but misery also loves company. it was never God's will for us to perish but we have the choice to make. if God let everyone into Heaven the enemy would infiltrate His Holy Kingdom. life isn't easy and if it was it wouldn't be worth living. someone with entry-level experience cannot expect to be made CEO overnight (it only happens in the movies ^^) true love isn't fairytale love that has no problems/tests (again only in movies) God loves us and He has plans to prosper us and give us hope. this love story is often misunderstood because it being scrutinized with the eyes of the false system that the beast(satan) has created. i pray that those who read this will have "eyes" to see thru the lies of the enemy and to fully receive the agape love that God has for them! Jesus paid the price so we don't have to. the war is won the battle for our hearts and minds is up to us. i give mine to the One Who made me, the One Who loves me! :)

      • Jason, I still don't see answers to the above mentioned questions… I think some are ganging up on you and dó try to change the subject into let's p. on the messenger with wise words some priest once used on …somebody else who didn't bow to the words people are putting in ''god' 's and ''jesus''' mouth?

      • We don't have any answers to give, that's why. I decided to rely like a blind, mindless person on Christ and go with the flow. You don't like me as you consider my way gullible, on the other hand it doesn't bother me if I'm liked or not by human beings. So lovely D D d refrain from getting upset. We evem love you no matter how much you criticize us.

      • Oh, but I am not against believers, just opposed to religious institutes that have proven to be corrupt, or abused by the corrupt.. for ages and ages. So my sarcasm, cynicism or plain stupid remarks are not so much persoanal against a human being.
        Although sometimes I do get a little annoyed when someone uses half the brain to think for themselves.

      • I'm not perfect, far from it, so it''s your loss if you think I can use all my brain at a time. Whatever brain is left ha. Ignore the corrupt religious institutes and let your intuition guide you then. What can I say? I don't have many answers to give, I'm as ignorant as the average Joe Bloggs even though quite often I pretend I'm knowledgeable. I'm glad we are fine.

      • Yeah… Just because you and I don't yet understand how our universe works, is that really a good reason to make up stories? Or just default to the best sounding fairy tale because you require an answer to the unknown? That is what I know to be irrationality.

        The truth is we've had 13 Billion years (from our perspective) to build the level of complexity that we see today. We for whatever reason have to ability to explore this complexity, I believe it's a terrible waste to settle for whatever dogma. To allow concrete evidence to take us so far, and then just, dive off the deep end once we've exhausted our limits instead of pushing for more information. After all, how do expect to reach a "spiritual maturity" without asking, observing, learning!?

        Why do we cling so hard to "I don't know, but some all-knowing being knows and doesn't want me to know so I won't ask"

        But we're so uncomfortable with "I don't know…yet"? are we just lazy?

      • We are not all demanding like you. We don't know, we don't need or want to know. End of, you can keep your inquisition to yourself.

      • Enlightenment is attainable- true knowing us attainable. Your choice to throw up your hands and submit to "not knowing" is weak and fearful. God exists. Most of the world believes in God. Not Jesus, mind you, but GOD, the endless divine creative force from whence the universe was born and through which energy is continuously cycled into the shape of our lives and the billions of lives which came before, come after, and moves the cosmos beyond our understanding. Do not limit yourself to human form for God, God is too great. The tale of Jesus was born out of human arrogance – we're so great of course God would be one of us! Truth is- God is ALL of us and more than we could ever imagine. So it's not that the truth is not for us to know, it's that the truth is so vast that most of us literally canNOT fathom.

      • I usually don't try to dwell on why things happen and just put trust into my faith in God. But when I do I feel like it's all mostly a test of faith to see how strong your faith is, to see if you're a worthy child of God.

      • You do realize that little kids could use the same line of logic for believing in Santa Claus?

      • Just stop dude. You're gonna spend your whole life trying to disprove this and never get anywhere… cause you don't really know, I don't really know, no one. I guarantee you these "believers" have a happier life than you…guaranteed. Sounds like you're jealous that people have faith and are content with what is going to happen when they die. And you are scared to death cause you don't. Or you're just another arrogant know it all. We got plenty of those, go sit back in your corner.

      • You can ask as many questions as you want, but you'll never find the answer to them. I used to have a million questions like that, and over the years i've subscribed to different belief systems, studied different religions and thought I had the answers to a lot of my questions. But eventually that all crumbled..and realized nobody really knows anything. Don't entirely count on reason and logic to help you, I'm very logic minded too, but things can be made to sound very reasonable, and the way something was explained felt like it made a lot of sense, but later realized, although its a really good explanation, it was total hogwash.

        Life doesn't really make much sense to me, I think just accepting that, and accepting those big questions may not be meant to be understood will make life easier. You can spend your life trying to understand it and you never will, it's just a waste of time. Don't trust anyone who seems to have all the answers…they're total frauds. It's impossible to really know anything.

      • Thank you. I agree with you 100%. More or less I offer the questions to challenge others just as someone did for me. Once someone asked me these questions I was forced to grow up spiritually and realize that while the mind could be an excellent tool, I still had to forge my own path based on experience.

      • "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do."
        a child would never say life doesn't make sense to them… they know it is… or atleast should be about love. it answers all the "big questions" too.

        for further learnig, i recommend Maria Valtorta's Poem of the Man God.

      • @Jason

        "So either God willfully created humans knowing they'd be sinful creatures, or he screwed up (which with the Christian line of logic would infer he's not God)"

        -Why is it had to imagine a God who would allow his creation to rebel against him yet still choose to provide a way of escape from the condemnation, because they could never do it alone? This is the Gospel. This is grace.

        "further he then sent his son to die for those creatures he willfully created imperfect. Now that right there should be cause for concern. I create a sinful creation and by the rules I've set in place, I'm obligated to send my son to die for what I created. That alone should be cause for concern. "

        -If this were true then yes it would be cause for concern, But he didnt create a sinful scenario. Second he wasnt obligated to do it, he chose to do it; he couldve been just in sending all to hell without grace, but he chose to die because of his love and grace.

        "Even more Jesus as God would have forseen all this at creation and even put in motion all the events that ultimately led to his fleshly death. That's not really spectacular. That's like me setting my friends up to be robbed and then coming in and beating up the robbers so I can look like a hero."

        -Except for the fact that he did it despite knowing people were still going to reject him. He died while were still sinners, enemies. Your scenario is flawed and nothing like what Jesus did because there is no real danger and no real motivation other than your pride. Jesus came to bring life and share his love and grace as well as gain honor.

        "Christians believe in Heaven where all will be good and holy. So where's free will there? Some may say all who go to Heaven will choose to obey God and be holy. Well why not skip the whole earth thing? Why didn't God just skip to creating Heaven and leave out the pain and suffering of being a human on earth? Further, I really don't have a choice in "being sinful." By Biblical rules, I'm automatically sinful. Where's the free will in that? "

        -I dont know, but my speculation, whatever that is worth, is Life is a gracious gift, it cant be earned or bought and both believers and unbelievers get to experience this gift. Eternal life is a gracious gift that believers get to partake in while unbelievers receive justice and what they ultimately want which is a life lead by there own choice apart from God, this is Hell.
        -Pain and suffering are from sin, direct and indirect.
        -No one has a choice to be sinful, but you do have a choice to be forgiven if you die to yourself and follow Jesus.

        -The problem of suffering and evil is very old. Do you know where it started? It started in a garden. The solution to evil and suffering came from an ironic and illogical place, a device used for punishing evil and producing suffering. The solution came from the God-man who did no evil yet endured suffering for the sin of the world. This solution provided a way for those who had suffered, suffering currently, or will suffer to have a savior who had experienced in this suffering, yet unjustly. A savior who can sympathize with any and all suffering. This solution was stamped with authority by the savior who conquered death and evil itself, to make a way for those who believe to do the same. This savior, Jesus, is returning to finally vanquish sin and death and to rescue his bride to live eternally without death.

        I tried to answer to the best of my knowledge as i could. If you have more questions please ask, but im not guaranteeing that i will know the answer!

      • Thank you for your well thought out response. Here's my answers:

        "Why is it had to imagine a God who would allow his creation to rebel against him yet still choose to provide a way of escape from the condemnation, because they could never do it alone? This is the Gospel. This is grace. "

        -It's not that God just allowed his creation to rebel against him, it's that he created his creation knowing full well that they'd rebel against him. Further, God in his omnipotence could have created creation in a way that we didn't rebel in him. Just in the same way God created us with limitations (i.e. omnipotence, the ability to know all) he could have created us in a way that we did not sin. This option does not mean the absence of free will either. I still have the option to call a friend and tell them that they are a great person or to send them a text message, and neither is sinful and yet still allows for free will.

        "If this were true then yes it would be cause for concern, But he didnt create a sinful scenario."

        – Are you saying that God did not create everything?

        "Except for the fact that he did it despite knowing people were still going to reject him. He died while were still sinners, enemies. Your scenario is flawed and nothing like what Jesus did because there is no real danger and no real motivation other than your pride. Jesus came to bring life and share his love and grace as well as gain honor."

        – Ad hominem attack aside, God is still first cause. If God created everything then he created the scenario you described. God in his omnipotence and all knowing nature is responsible for this scenario since he creates everything and creates it with full knowledge of how it will play out. Are you saying that when God created creation he did not know that man would send and that he eventually would come in human form and die on the cross to "redeem" mankind? If he didn't know this, then he's not all knowing and not the God as described in the Bible.

        "The problem of suffering and evil is very old. Do you know where it started? It started in a garden. The solution to evil and suffering came from an ironic and illogical place, a device used for punishing evil and producing suffering. The solution came from the God-man who did no evil yet endured suffering for the sin of the world. This solution provided a way for those who had suffered, suffering currently, or will suffer to have a savior who had experienced in this suffering, yet unjustly. A savior who can sympathize with any and all suffering. This solution was stamped with authority by the savior who conquered death and evil itself, to make a way for those who believe to do the same. This savior, Jesus, is returning to finally vanquish sin and death and to rescue his bride to live eternally without death."

        – If God created everything then he created suffering and evil. He created both the problem and the solution (salvation through Christ's death and resurrection). Given the suffering that many innocent people (and innocent children) have to endure on earth, this is not noble. Under the Bible's own guidelines, to sit back with the power to stop evil and suffering and choose not to is to be complicit. This is exactly what the Christian God has done.

      • To quote one of my favorite authors and pastors, Tim Keller:

        "First, we have to recognize that the problem of tragedy, injustice and suffering is a problem for everyone no matter what their beliefs are. Now, if you believe in God and for the first time experience or see horrendous evil, you rightly believe that that is a problem for your belief in God, and you’re right – and you say, “How could a good and powerful God allow something like this to happen?”

        But it’s a mistake (though a very understandable mistake) to think that if you abandon your belief in God it somehow is going to make the problem easier to handle. Dr Martin Luther King, Jr., in his Letter from Birmingham Jail says that if there was no higher divine Law, there would be no way to tell if a particular human law was unjust or not. So think. If there is no God or higher divine Law and the material universe is all there is, then violence is perfectly natural—the strong eating the weak! And yet somehow, we still feel this isn’t the way things ought to be. Why not? Now I’m not going to get philosophical at a time like this. I’m just trying to make the point that the problem of injustice and suffering is a problem for belief in God but it is also a problem for disbelief in God—for any set of beliefs. So abandoning belief in God does not really help in the face of it"

        Again hope this helps you in your reflecting.

      • Thank you for your well thought out response. It does help a bit. I had a similar conversation a couple of years back with the pastor of my church at the time (and I think he recommended Tim Keller's "The Reason for God") and my position was that Tim's argument does not prove the existence of the Bible's God.

        I agree that there is a higher divine law. However so do most other major religions as well as occultists (both Hermetics and Theosophy come to mind). The existence of God does not equate to the existence of God as defined by Christian doctrine or the Bible. The Bible's God is an anthropomorphized being that feels jealously, rage, sorrow, etc. and made in man's image to fit God in a nice, neat box.

        Further the Bible disproves its God based on its own rules. God is all-powerful and loving, yet sits back and watches innocent people endure suffering. The Book of Job alone is an indictment on the God of the Bible's callousness toward his own creation.

        In truth the Bible is a book written by man. Now some will say it's God inspired, but that's only believed because the very book written by man says so. It's a circular argument.

        I personally believe in God. But it's an ever evolving relationship based on personal experience and unique understanding based on my experiences with God. It's a God of my own understanding. Christianity and the Bible are too static and only offer other people's understanding of God while suppressing the idea that there may be more than one way to experience God.

        I'll end by saying this. Jesus's message was less about his physical death and resurrection and more about his spiritual resurrection as a result of self-less sacrifice to others. In essence he died to the selfish nature of his flesh and was spiritually awake as a result. From my experience (and I emphasize my experience) this is half of the formula to experiencing God. Buddha's life does a good job laying out the second half. But I need neither a Bible or Sutra to take the action required to experience God.

      • Well my response got erased, so I'll keep this short. I'm familiar with Tim Keller's work. This position and what he builds on from here may prove the existence of God, but it does not prove the existence of God as laid out in the Bible. Further my argument is not against the existence of a God (or a Divine power), but against the existence of God as laid out by the Bible. The Book of Job alone is an indictment on a supposedly loving God as defined by the Bible. The Bible's God is contrived by man based on a book inspired by God because in the same book, man says God inspired it. Circular reasoning and Biblical contradictions alone disprove the Bible's God.

      • Jason – From reading your comments it is apparent that you are an intelligent and logical person. Have you researched Biblical prophesy much? By doing so, many of my doubts have decreased. So many prophesies have been fulfilled as they said they would be, it increases my confidence in the book. It is a way to validate faith through logical reasoning. The type of information presented on VC's website also fits in amazingly well with prophesies in the book of Revelation. Of course there are still many mysteries, but the more I study, the more convinced and amazed I become.

      • The prophesies are similar with many different religions, not just Christianity. Further you have to stretch to make Revelations fit modern times. Times are definitely harsh, but they're nothing compared to say the Dark Ages.

      • winston smith on

        Firstly, it's Revelation.

        Secondly, ask people in Pakistan and Yemen who are being randomly bombed in the name of "fighting terrorism" (ironic!) if this is "nothing" compared to the Dark Ages. Ask people who suffered through regime change in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and Egypt, and are now mired in incessant sectarian civil war, just as Lebanon was from 1975 – 1990, has never healed, and is sliding back into, if the two-day battle in Sidon that ended Tuesday is any indication.

        Regarding Syria, we are dangerously close to the following prophecy coming to pass – Isaiah 17:1…

        "Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city,
        And it will be a ruinous heap."

      • "It's not that God just allowed his creation to rebel against him, it's that he created his creation knowing full well that they'd rebel against him."

        -Exactly why would he do this? This blows my mind! Grace, mercy, patience, love, the ability to redeem. HE could have done what he did to the angels and give them justice which is hell no possiblity to have forgiveness. Hell was created for the angels.

        "Further, God in his omnipotence could have created creation in a way that we didn't rebel in him. Just in the same way God created us with limitations (i.e. omnipotence, the ability to know all) he could have created us in a way that we did not sin. This option does not mean the absence of free will either. I still have the option to call a friend and tell them that they are a great person or to send them a text message, and neither is sinful and yet still allows for free will."

        -Free will needs to be defined. I dont believe humans have free will but let me explain. Only God is the True free being and can do what he pleases. We have a will but its not free and never will be. Our will makes real choices that have real consequences. We cant just chose to not be an alcoholic or a drug addict because we dont have a free will, but we can make choices to not drink today or smoke today or what to eat, etc. Adam and Eve, if you believe they existed, had the most pure form will power. Sin hadnt contaminated it, but they were tempted and succumbed to the lies of the serpent. Since then Sin has tainted our will even more.

        Also the fact is God didnt have to create us at all. He doesnt need us and never will. The fact he created us in his image is again an act of Grace. God loved his creation so much he wasnt going to force them to love him, instead he was going to draw his own back to him through love. No one truly comes to God out of fear of death or punishment, because that would be selfish in motivation which isnt love. Instead all who come to God through Christ do so out of reflecting on his Grace and love and respond to him in Love. He doesnt force anyone to love him, people are given what they want. IF they want to spend eternity with Him then he allows them to, if they want to have a life controlled by their own desires and decisions he loves them enough to give them that as well (hell).

        Finally on this point, God wanted us to take part in the story of his redemption and grace, believers are the hands and feet of Jesus, or supposed to be…, we share hope with a hurt and dying world that needs him. This is a perspective we wouldnt get if we skipped the now.

        "- Are you saying that God did not create everything?"

        – Jesus did create everything and He sustains it.
        What is sin or evil then he must have created that?
        Evil is the absence of good. THere is no neutral and im not talking dualism either. For example the idea of something being Cold doesnt exist in and of itself. Cold is the absence of heat, aka energy. So heat exists, but Cold follows. Darkness and light. Darkness is the absence of light. I hope this helps…

        Therefore, God created everything good and humans very good! which is what we read in the book of genesis. the possibility of sin always existed.

        "Ad hominem attack aside"

        -Sorry if you thought i was using an ad hominem attack. The response was directed at your example or scenario and not to you. My point was that the example you provided doesnt contain real consequence, because your friends arent being truly being robbed and never were. In our story we are facing certain death if we dont have a savior and sadly some do face condemnation. But God always knew he was going to have to redeem his people. WHy? This is how he wanted to conquer sin and death, the way that saved people and allowed people to take part in this redemption!

        "if God created everything then he created suffering and evil"

        -Again no deny ultimately God is the creator of everything. but again as earlier to have a real "Good" there necessarily exists a possibility of a real "evil". But God didnt create the world evil he created it good with very good humans. The sin came after, through the choice of Eve and Adam.

        Finally a touchy subject… The word innocent is a misnomer because no one is innocent. We all have sinned, we all have lied, but beyond that Sin is not so much what we do, but rather it is a state of existence; a state of being. The consequence of sin is physical death and ultimately spiritual death. The physical death aspects are what seem to disturb you the most, and i see why. I hate seeing anyone suffer from cancer, let alone Children, but because of sin, direct from choice and indirect choice of others, we have pain and suffering and evil.

      • I think this is going to come down to an agreement to disagree. There's no grace nor love in creating a creation knowing beforehand a good percentage of it will burn for eternity in hell. There's no grace nor love in creating a creation knowing beforehand that little kids will be molested, starve, tortured and endure some of the worst atrocities humans can go through. There's no grace nor love in creating a creation that supposedly you meant to do only good, but magically chooses bad (as if this omnipotent being didn't forsee this)and then you have to "save" it from the conditions you created to begin with.

        Good can exist without evil. If not, then how do you explain Heaven? Will Heaven be the Garden of Eden scenario all over again?

        Babies out the womb are innocent. I'd say most children up to around the age of two or so are without sin. Would you differ on this? Still this doesn't save some of them from some horrendous suffering.

      • "Babies out the womb are innocent. I'd say most children up to around the age of two or so are without sin. Would you differ on this? Still this doesn't save some of them from some horrendous suffering."
        if you mean suffering on THIS EARTH, that has a so to speak redemption value for those who are not innocent but never repent. for them others have to repent, the innocent ones.

      • Jahprovidethebread on

        I think that you have answered your question here :) I believe YHWH created us out of love; to love one another and to love Him and praise His holy name and an extension of His perfect love for us is the gift of free will. I love the questions you asked. I think you're right, God would have known what would happen but again, He gave us the choice whether or not to obey His Word. Which became flesh. Any who, here's one of my fave bible bits in reply to your most excellent questions ~ The Lord Speaks
        38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

        2 “Who is this that obscures my plans
        with words without knowledge?
        3 Brace yourself like a man;
        I will question you,
        and you shall answer me.
        4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
        Tell me, if you understand.
        5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
        Who stretched a measuring line across it?
        6 On what were its footings set,
        or who laid its cornerstone. 7 while the morning stars sang together
        and all the angels shouted for joy?

      • Just in response to your first paragraph, God created man and woman (Adam and Eve) who were pure and there was no sin. Satan tempted them, they ate the fruit, gained the knowledge of good and evil and THAT is where sin originated, by the doings of the devil. Basic knowledge right there.

      • A tree that God placed in the Garden knowing beforehand in his omnipotence that Adam and Eve would eat from. That's like putting a chocolate cake before a four year hold knowing before hand that they will eat it and telling them, "If you eat that I'm going to spank you."

        And then we're back to who created Satan? God created everything, so God created Satan.

      • you can't compare a four year old to Adam and Eve.a four year old isn't fully responsible yet. Adam and Eve were because of their perfect intelligence. they understood perfectly what God explained to them about the forbidden tree – and they knew He warned them because He loved them and didn't want them to die. however, they chose to listen to Satan who seduced them with: "you will be like God". a creation wanting to overcome their Creator! maybe if possible, they would even want to get rid of Him and take over the Heavens! which is exactly what Satan wanted, too! but in your eyes they deserved no punishment for that. okay then.

      • ''Perfect intelligence''.. hm very interesting point !

        …and….sarcastic mode off….

      • Yes but why create the tree of knowledge int he first place if it will be a cause for temptation?

      • the tree of knowledge is a symbol. it symbolizes the free will to chose evil over good. the first people had no limits in their inteligence that would prevent them from seeing what Good is. but they didn't know what Evil is yet. God's advice to them was: "it is not even worth learning what Evil is; it will bring you no good; only suffering and death. I love you and don't want you to go thru that. please listen to Me and you will be happy forever like you're now, and even more cause I have so many surprises prepared for you."
        but Satan told them: "it's not true – but learning what Evil is will make you true Gods! that's what He's actually afraid of; He doesn't want to protect you: He is scared you might be as powerful as Him, that's it! don't you want to try and become like God?"

        okay, so they have made their choice. and it came out God was right, and it brought them only suffering and death. and since they pledged allegiance to Satan by listening to him and his advice, they thus became his slaves. it was like: "let's see who will they decide to follow?" God, since He is a just God, respected the choice of His beloved creation – BUT He couldn't just sit and watch them dying under Satan's rule!
        therefore He had already made a plan how to set them free from this slavery they have chosen against His advice and that brought them death. He could've as well just let them be, no?

        but no. He decided to go and get His beloved creation our of this misery. to deal out justice, someone had to pay expiation to Satan for the manking he now owned (which was just fair as he owned them by their own decision).
        but who could pay such a price? only God Himself! and so He did – He gave Himself and His body and blood to pay for His creation to make them free again. note: He didn't make us His slaves by paying for our lives! He didn't buy us – He only paid to make us free from Satan's chains! isn't that fair beyond imagination? doesn't He have every right to our lives now, when He paid for us? and yet He still respects our free will and waits humbly to see if we decide to love Him for what He has done for us.


      • Well Jason, interesting post. I'lll try my best to respond to your statement as respectable and as informative as I can. I can explain more of this in detail but I am not sure you would want an entire super wall so I'll stick to what you only talked about.

        First off God is perfect and at some point in the existence of man, we were perfect too. You said that God created humans that sin, but that statement is not correct. God created us with free will something that is by no means a "screw up" from God. We were perfect and innocent with the CAPABILITY of sinning due to our free will, but that does not mean that he created us with sin. Sin is the lack of God or man's self interests(me,I, not God), a disobedience to God, a transgression. Sinning would be then following one's self interests, having no interest in what God has to say(Lack of God). So if we analyze Genesis we can see that man went for something that God prohibited. Man followed his self, man was not thinking of God's interests and/or will, man pursued self and therefor a bit of God was lost in us. In other words God and man were disconnected due to sin, the lack of God in us.

      • God created us so that He and mankind would live together and work together much like a son would work with his father in a business. Adam was told to minister the things that were given to him. Told him to name the animals. God pretty much told man to tend to everything on Earth maybe even more than just Earth! I am assuming you're a father or a future father, but wouldn't you want a son who would work next to you, learn from you, love you by his own will and not be forced to do so? This could not happen if God did not give man a choice. God did not want a creation to love Him just because it was the only thing it knew how to do and not have a choice. No, God wanted man by his own free will to follow Him, to love him. He doesn't need our love, but He did want a race of somekind to be in His image. Much like how a son will always somehow have a resemblance(image) to his father. It's beautiful when you start to see how much we as humans reflect God even though it's a twisted and tainted reflection.

      • I wouldn't purposely place temptation in my son's path. Further I wouldn't place temptation in my son's path that would "curse" him and all his offspring. I find it cruel that God would purposely place the tree in the Garden with the foreknowledge that Eve would eat from it.

      • this sounds really bitter. but God really isn't that mean like you try to picture Him…. it's just your own screwed perception. anyway if you feel it is so, then no one can convince you it is otherwise. as it is your own free decision to see it that way.

      • Placing temptation? Jason, It's more like placing an option, a choice. If you wan't to go your own way, away from God and follow your "self" then you have the option to do so. Like I said, if that tree was never there then man would never in his own free will follow God. You'd just have a robot who would do only what is right because there was never an option to do wrong. God wanted a love between Him and man that would endure forever, but love cannot be forced, love is a decision. No matter what the situation, no matter how one feels, one takes the decision to do what is right for the person he loves. God didn't want something to love Him just because it was ordered to, He wanted someone in His image, He wanted a creature that would love Him, with decision, like how He loves.

      • Hey jason I've been reading through this loong thread and I have to say your comments/thoughts are much the same as mine have been in the past. I am no scholar nor am I particularly knowledgeable on much but just wanted to say ( at the risk of being viewed as stupid and naive) that when these prolonged conversations and debates exhausted me and I had mocked and hissed at many a christian. Not saying that's what you are doing just to clarify. Anyway just wanted to suggest that one day when you feel inspired to just call on God to reveal himself to you. This must bea genuine desire. Anyway I'm blabbing abit but this is what I did and it is the only reason I believe today. I tried this a few times but this particular time it was my deepest desire to have God revealed to me. I am a pentecostal just in case you're wondering. God bless you Jason. Your genuine in al of your questioning and I can see a breakthrough for you soon. I will even pray for you.

      • Like I said earlier, a bit of God was lost in mankind and therefor a disconnection between man and God occured. Even though this disconnection occured, man somehow maintained God's attributes like emotions, intellect, existence, and free will, but not in it's perfection. All these attributes now all aim for self's interests due to our sinful nature which was passed down to us by Adam and Eve. Not only does this sinful nature exist in those attributes in us, but it also exists in our physical bodies(disease, death) and in the planet(earthquakes, other geographical instabilities, chemical decay), and even in the universe. Sin also severes our spiritual well being. This disconnection from God does not allow us to come close to Him in, meaning we could not live together with Him. We cannot be in good terms with Him. We have trespassed and have gone our own way, we lived and continue to live for ourselves having no interest in what God has to say. Unfortunately this sinful nature given to us by our fathers(not God) will never allow us to will fully come forth to God . It's in our nature to be defiant to God and at the same time desire to be like Him but only in power and in glory.

      • So your question might be, "So if this sinful nature does not allow me to come close to God then what can be done?". Nothing can be done. Man by himself cannot save himself. He's lost and awaits death and awaits an even more intense seperation from God. All man awaits hell. We deserve it. Christians deserve it. No one can stand up before God and try to justify themselves with good deeds. It will never come close to perfection. It would also be a way for man to glory himself in his deeds if he would be able to enter heaven that way. This would only satisfy our sinful nature: "I've done so much good, look at these other horrid sinners going to hell, I am way holier than they are.". So if man cannot save himself, then who can? The only one who can would be God Himself.

      • God is three personas all at once: the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit. They're are all one, intuned, synchronized, yet all have their own freewill, emotions, and intellect. If you read closely in Genesis the statement of "the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" from the New testament makes sense and is supported in the old testament. Genesis 1:26:…"Lets make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness…". So we can see that God is more than one person but three persons all at once, with the same ideas, principles, intentions, and objectives(Just so you know this is not univeralism by any means). Between these three personas there is an intensive love and unity much like a family (Again we reflect God).

      • Now these three personas knew when and how they would save mankind from their own sinful nature. They knew that blood had to be spilled because that was the law that they themselves made for man. God is love and all powerful, and he's also just and correct. God's law pretty much says, if any man sins he/she shall be put to death. This is true, this is why we die, because we have sinned. May it be by disease, stoned to death, accidents, slaughtered, etc. We die because we deserve it. Now with that said, you can see where Jesus comes in. Being part of the Trinity, the Son, decided to come to Earth and save mankind from their sins(transgressions). Jesus knew that he would have to be sacrificied like in the Jewish traditions(a foretelling of the Messiahs action) in order to cleanse man from his sin and his sinful nature and thats exactly what He does. People think that the most painful part for Jesus was the suffering, pain and death, but thats not true. What hurt Him the most was the seperation He had to endure from the Father and the Holy Spirit, I can't really explain it but thats what happened. Jesus had to carry all the sins of man and recieve the punishment from all those transgressions.

      • God created everything. There's several verses in the Bible that verify this. John 1:1-3, Nehemiah 9:6, and my favorite Isiah 45:12 where God even goes as far to say he commands all he's created. So to say God did not create sin, evil, or Satan is to contradict what is written in the Bible. Now you can give your own opinion on God creating sin and evil, but it's in direct contradiction to what's in these verses.

        So should we take your word or the Bible as the authority?

        I'm not going to rehash what I've said in other comments, but what you've stated about salvation is what the Bible says. The Bible was written by man, contradicts itself, and is in many places outright ridiculous (a man in the belly of a whale for three days, all the animals on an ark bird and fish included, etc.). So to use it as the basis for defining a deity seems to defy modern day logic.

        Now the Bible says it was inspired by God, but ultimately that's man telling us that it was inspired by God. History shows there's been several people (many nuts included) who said they were inspired by God. Not to mention Muslims and other major religions say the exact same thing.

      • yes, many said they were inspired by God but Christians are the only ones who have the right to claim that as their God gave them the ultimate proof no other "god" managed to give. and that is Jesus's Death on the Cross and His Ressurection. no other "god" ever died for his creation and no one ever rose from the dead himself. only the Son of God – Jesus Christ.

      • I'll end on my part in this discussion on this note:

        Christianity does a lot of good for a lot of people. And for that I'm thankful. People find God through Christianity and as a result find serenity and purpose in love. That's great. I personally can't stomach the religion, but that's my own personal problem to work out.

        There is more than one path to God. Christians can state they have a monopoly on God, but their reasoning employs circular logic and is contradictory. Also a majority of the time, Christians are not familiar with the history and politics of how their religion got the present day Bible and the Christian doctrine they subscribe to. But hey it still works for many and those people are not worse for what they don't know or understand.

        At the end of the day, life is to be lived finding peace, practicing love, and fulfilling one's purpose in preparation for the next level of existence. Christianity for some provides a road map and that's awesome. So with that , I wish everyone the best on their journey.

      • There is more than one path to occult deception.May the Lord help you before it is too late.Before United Superchurch of Antichrist is set.

        Hope for the best.

      • The university professor challenged his students with this question: Did God create everything that exists?" A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!" "God created everything?" the professor asked. "Yes, Sir," the student replied.

        The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil; since evil exists and, according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil." The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

        Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact, Sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is, in reality, the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460° F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

        The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does." The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

        Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

        To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, Sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exists just as result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

        The professor sat down.

        The young man's name —
        Albert Einstein

      • i have read this story a couple times already but once again – thumbs up! exactly, all those who follow evil try to get rid of their responsibility claiming it is God who created evil and He is the one responsible for it – while in fact evil is – just like said above – lack of God's love in their hearts.
        God being responsible for evil is a downright Satanic claim.

      • the logical foundation of Christianity vomes from understanding what Christ TAUGHT. If you cant see the LOGIC in Love and Compassion, and treating all humans as brothers and sisters out of Love for your creator, not fear, then this site and all of vig's info is wasted on ya. intellectually speaking, Christianity is the MOST logical philosophy to ensure peaceful earth…

      • Totaly absent in the above reasoning by Jason / Epicurus?
        [i.e. 'Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?' and/or "Is he able, but not willing?" etc etc]

        is the awareness of and distinction between truth and illusion. What you teach you learn (!) and God knows that His Creations are perfect and He keeps reality safe and is not decieved by illusions (no matter how badly 'you' want Him to). And if God responded to the illusions as if they were real, they would actually become real! However, the world we currently live in is just a rather ugly dream and is not part of reality (the Son of God fell asleep), temporary in time.

        ACIM: “…The secret of salvation is but this: That you are doing this unto yourself. No matter what the form of the attack, this still is true. Whoever takes the role of enemy and of attacker, still is this the truth. Whatever seems to be the cause of any pain and suffering you feel, this is still true. For you could not react at all to figures in a dream you knew that you were dreaming. Let them be as hateful and as vicious as they may, they could have no effect on you unless you failed to recognize it is your dream.” [ACIM, T 545]

        "Abilities must be developed before you can use them. This is not true of anything that God created, but it is the kindest solution possible for what you made. In an impossible situation, you can develop your abilities to the point where they can get you out of it. You have a Guide how to develop them, but you have no commander except yourself. This leaves you in charge of the Kingdom, with both a Guide to find it and a means to keep it. You have a model to follow who will strengthen your command, and never detract from it in any way. You therefore retain the central place in your imagined enslavement, which in itself demonstrates that you are not enslaved.

        You are in an impossible situation only because you think it is possible to be in one. You would be in an impossible situation if God showed you your perfection, and proved to you that you were wrong. (!) This would demonstrate that the perfect are inadequate to bring themselves to an awareness of their perfection, and thus side with the belief that those who have everything need help and are therefore helpless. This is the kind of 'reasoning' in which the ego engages. God, Who knows that His creations are perfect, does not affront them." [ACIM, T 94]

        "The separation was not a loss of perfection, but a failure in communication. A harsh and strident form of communication arose as the ego’s voice. It could not shatter the peace of God, but it could shatter yours. God did not blot it out, because to eradicate it would be to attack it. Being questioned, He did not question. He merely gave the Answer. His Answer is your Teacher." [ACIM, T 94-95]

        “The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects are under the Holy Spirit’s particular care and guidance. Ask and He will answer. The responsibility is His, and He alone is fit to assume it. To do so is His function. To refer the questions to Him is yours. Would you want to be responsible for decisions about which you understand so little? Be glad you have a Teacher Who cannot make a mistake. His answers are always right. Would you say that of yours?

        There is another advantage, – and a very important one, – in referring decisions to the Holy Spirit with increasing frequency. Perhaps you have not thought of this aspect, but its centrality is obvious. To follow the Holy Spirit’s guidance is to let yourself be absolved of guilt. It is the essence of the Atonement. It is the core of the curriculum. The imagined usurping of functions not your own is the basis of fear. The whole world you see reflects the illusion that you have done so, making fear inevitable. To return the function to the One to Whom it belongs is thus the escape from fear. And it is this that lets the memory of love return to you. Do not, then, think that following the Holy Spirit’s guidance is necessary merely because of your own inadequacies. It is the way out of hell for you.

        Here again is the paradox often referred to the course. To say, ”Of myself I can do nothing” is to gain all power. And yet it is but a seeming paradox. As God created you, you have all power. The image you made of yourself has none. The Holy Spirit knows the truth about you. The image you made does not. Yet, despite its obvious and complete ignorance, this image assumes it knows all things because you have given that belief to it. Such is your teaching, and teaching of the world that was made to uphold it. But the Teacher Who Knows the truth has not forgotten it. His decisions bring benefit to all, being wholly devoid of attack. And therefore incapable of arousing guilt.

        Who assumes a power that he does not possess is deceiving himself. Yet to accept the power given him by God is but to acknowledge his Creator and accept His gifts. And His gifts have no limit. To ask the Holy Spirit to decide for you is simply to accept your true inheritance.” … [T, 68]

        ctd –>

      • ok hold up, lets back up a bit like Jason asked and look at the existence of God and the belief in Jesus Christ from am angle of Love. Yes, its just an emotion but it rules the world despite the evil inherent. Have you ever loved? like really, truly loved, whatever it was? Even if it was just for a fleeting life-changing second (I pray you really have), sure then you could most definitely describe the EXPERIENCE. There in lies the perception of Christianity, the perception of Godhead, the perception of creation. Say Amen Bro…

      • Thank you so much for eloquently putting down your thoughts to share with others. That was very well said! It is sad, but that is the goal of the devil. To make people believe that Christ nor the devil exists. God loved us so much that he sent to us his only son, the Lord to take away the sins of the world. Sadly, people would rather be kept in darkness than study and understand God's word. The devil is cunning and conniving and knows how to twist and make people confused with the real truth. If people were to allow God into their hearts, the truth will be revealed to them, and things would make much more sense to them. People should not have fear in their hearts if they allow God to stand by their side.

      • ChristisLife on

        You are exactly right swtypie! I agree 100 percent with everything you said! If people would only understand that truth. But so many are blinded to the truth, they can't see it. And if they do, it's hard for them to accept it because there's a lack of understanding. But like you've stated, if we study God's word, we will understand and know the truth. You are right, the devil's aim is to deceive the world into believing that God doesn't exist. And he causes people to question His existence based solely on the fact that we have evil in this world. It dates back to Adam and Eve in the Garden. God made them perfect and without sin. Once Eve ate of the fruit, sin came into the world, death came into the earth, and then Adam ate after. They disobeyed God, because they were simply deceived by the devil which possessed a serpent. If you wonder why we have death, sin and destruction in the world, it is because of the devil. Satan is the god of this world and he seeks about who he can devour – with the intent to steal, kill and destroy. We can't blame God for the wickedness of this world, who are we to do so? Blame the devil for the wickedness. Clearly, he is in control of the elite – giving them the ideas and schemes to destroy this world. So why do people attack God? We take God out of schools, but leave the devil there. We flock to VC – for truth, but neglect The Bible, claiming it is "just another book." What has happened? Are we greater than God, are we on His level? People do not respect God. Their egos have become so big, that they don't reference Him.
        This is the problem facing the elite. They are so filled with arrogance and pride that they feel they are on the same level as God.

        I dare not blaspheme the name of the Lord. I rather take my chances believing in and serving God, being on His side at all times – then to be in a position where I reject God only to be left alone here in this wicked and evil world and when I need Him, the moment when I will need Him most, it would be too late. That's not going to be me. I choose to serve Him. It doesn't have to be yours. but Christ is most definitely my Life.

      • You should understand that every religion is meant for manipulating with you.
        Think outside the box that was created for you by others…

        Besides, the word "god" is a corrupt term, it would imply that you as a human would have control over the higher being. Be careful what you say, words emanate a frequency, what have a direct effect. Taking it all together: there are consequences based on what you write.

      • walenivid,
        what type of occult teachings you belong?

        If not sorry please explain the frequencies.

      • So who created Satan? If God created everything, doesn't that mean he created Satan? And if God is all-knowing, then didn't he create Satan knowing that Satan would be evil?

        This is what I mean by you willfully have to ignore logic to subscribe to your God.

      • God made no programmed robots but free beings who chose either to be with Him or be against Him. Satan and the fallen angels have chosen the latter. simple as that.

      • Thanks Lisa, I agree with your comment. God did not "create" evil, nor did He create the devil. God created angels who were given free will. It was out of free will that one angel rebelled and used that free will to go against God. The same with humans, God created humans with free will and humans chose to sin. God does not control us. We make our own choices, we ourselves decide what we do with that free will. Because of the sinful nature of humans, God sent his only son Jesus to take on the sins of the world and so that we have a chance at eternal life and salvation. People don't take the time to fully understand the concept of free what eternal life and salvation means.

      • If God created everything as Christians believe, how did he not create the devil? And if God created everything then he also created the option to sin. What is sin? It's going against God's will. God has to create the option to go against his will and he has to create the rules that define his will.

        God created the creation, knowing full well he'd be sending "his son" (which according to Christianity is God in the flesh) to die. First off Jesus is God. Anything Jesus endured on earth was as a direct result of his creation when he was God and formed creation. The insults, the pain, his "death" (it's not like God can really die) where all his creation. Second off Jesus as God knew from outset that creating creation in the way he did would lead to his death and then still chose to create creation that way. It's hard to see how that is remarkable and definitely hard to see how that's loving.

      • you partly answered your own questions. obviously your biggest problem is to accept the existence of the free will and its consequences – first of all responsibility for one's own acts. God has not created the devil as the devil – He has created the being that has chosen to become a devil. He Himself did everything that was in His power to prevent that from happening. but even He cannot take free will from His creation.
        read Clockword Orange? it basicly says that if the bad want to remain bad, no one should, nor actually can, force them to be otherwise. it's exactly the same with God's Creation. His greatest act of generosity is that He allows the existence of evil. as He could've as well just not created those who He had foreseen would become evil – but he gave them the same chance and the same free will as to the good ones.
        it is so simple – He created us to love us, to give us Himself. and all those who accept to be loved by their Creator can live with Him for eternity. He doesn't exclude anyone; those who don't want that exclude themselves.
        being able to accept the gift of Love, however, requires humility. accepting that we are nothing without Him who gave us everything. this is a simple truth which so many aren't able to acknowledge, because of their pride.
        pride is the core of evil and separates us from God.

      • "He Himself did everything that was in His power to prevent that from happening. but even He cannot take free will from His creation. "

        The Biblical God's all powerful, so he can prevent evil. He just choose not to.

      • yes, God is Almighty and His power is omnipotent but like you said, He chose not to interfere with the free will He granted us. that's correct. He is the one who respects it most. much more than we do.
        of course, He could do that if He wanted, it is in His power. but a free decision of His Creation to love Him is something that He values more than anything else. He always does everything possible to influence our free decision in the right direction, by creating special conditions to make us see the Truth, sending us people who can make us see it and such things – but He never forces us.
        like you said, He chose to respect our decisions. He however, warns us that some choices can have fatal consequences for us. that's why He also granted us reason and memory to enable us to learn and make the right choices. the rest is upon us.

      • No he never forces us to love him, but just sends us to hell if we don't. Then he places multiple opportunities in our path to screw up so that we'll come on our knees begging for grace and mercy to prove our love and adoration to him.

        Christianity is a fear and shame based religion which was used by Constantine and his global predecessors to control and manipulate the masses. I find it ironic that of all places to choose from, you have found comfort in discussing your beliefs on a site that points out mass manipulation.

        BTW, I say this from spending the first twenty years of my life being a Bible thumping Christian myself.

      • i am sorry. what speaks out of you is pure pride. but "God is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble".

        Heaven is a place for those who want to live with God who is Love and Good. where do you think those who refuse Love and Good should dwell?

        as a Christian, i never felt fear. fear results from misunderstanding.

        "I find it ironic that of all places to choose from, you have found comfort in discussing your beliefs on a site that points out mass manipulation."
        i don't find that ironic at all. as being Christian makes me conscious, not manipulated. perhaps you never noticed it but owner of this site is Christian, too.

      • Lisa, I'm not proud. I speak from personal experience when I say the religion is fear and shame based. When I was struggling with my faith and asking these questions, I was shamed and told I would go to hell for having doubts versus given any help or answers to my questions.

        As a result I'm pretty well-read and have had to research the topic as a result of struggling to defend Christianity in the past. But if you want to call me proud and whatever else, go ahead. I got used to it when I was looking to other believers to help understand my faith.

        VC considers himself/herself as a "Christian." I don't know VC personally, but I have a feeling that's different than being a Christian. Since I don't know him/her, I can't really say much more about that.

        Why would God create people who refuse love and good?

      • ask rather "why would ppl refuse love and good which is God?" is it so hard to understand it's their OWN CHOICE not His? He juts gives them the same opportunity to exist as He gives the ones who don't.

        okay, sorry, i apologize. i should rather say "cynical" than proud. because that's how you come across to me. from my personal experience i learned that the more well-read someone is, the harder for them is to accept simple truths about God.

        but "going to hell for having doubts?" LOOL – who told you that. actually, those who have doubts might be actually much more interested in their religion than those who accept everything without thinking. God doesn't want mindless sheep; He expects us to explore Him, to contemplate His mysteries… even though there should always be some kind of awe in it. some degree of respect. He is like a shy Lover who expects you to discover how much He cherishes you… by giving signs of His love here and there. He hates to be dissected and examined coldly.. hides Himself to such examiners.

        to live your life with God is so…. exciting.

      • All that you have stated does not take a belief in the Bible's or Christianity's definition of God.

        In fact Biblical figures such as Abraham, Moses, or David did not have the Bible in its entirety to define their conception of God. They had to develop a God of their own understanding. Their ability to experience God was based on personal and unique action and their conception of God was just as unique as they were.

        Personally, I experience God more being in nature, volunteering, talking about spiritual life with friends or from meditating than I ever did in church or reading the Bible.

      • then you don't need to worry about yourselfl you have God in your heart. however, to experience God is one thing… to learn the eternal truths about Him another. you can feel some of these truths in your heart but you can never "extract" them from there in their fullness. your mind just isn't sufficient for that. thus Abraham, Moses or David only had a partial knowledge of their God. to present day people that would definitely not be enough.

        the Truth about God has to be revealed to us. yes, every human being has Him in their heart – but if that was enough, then the whole mankind would worship the one and the same God.
        why there are so many different religions and denominations then?

        we need to be given the objective Truth. relativism has created a false idea that there isn't just one truth but many. while there are just many SUBJECTIVE ways of percepting the truth but the truth itself is only one.

        okay it's 1 am over here and my eloquence starts to decay rapidly…

        … / to be continued

      • Experiential knowledge is far more valuable than book knowledge. I've learned more about God through experience in the last few years doing the things I described, then all my years reading the Bible and going to church.

        Further, in experience there's no such thing as objective truth because it's always viewed through the lens of subjectivity.

      • how can you be sure you have been experiencing God and not some other spirit? devil can pretend he is God, he can give you similar spiritual experience. all in al, it is his biggest wish, to be adored like God so he does everything to achieve it.

        this is always the danger of self-learning in theology: one can never know which spirit does one interact with. i went thru that so i know something about these things. the degree of one's certitude about one's truth is such that no words can convince them they might be wrong.

        but experience mostly brings various kind of feelings – and feelings can never be taken as reliable. there has to be something for us to discern. and the best thing to discern whether our experience comes from God or the Evil one – is the CROSS.

        if you, based on your interacton with God, love His Cross that brought Salvation to the mankind – then you've been experiencing the true God.
        if not, then it is the Evil one.

      • Free will does not automatically mean a choice between good or evil. Everyday there are choices that never involve good and evil. I'm chose to drink iced coffee today versus hot coffee and neither choice (free will) would have been a sinful one (unless caffeine violates your religious doctrine). Not only that, there are many other limitations (such as death, inability to know the future, etc.) God has imposed on us, so it's fallacious to assume that God could not have created us without the choice of evil. To say this is to deny God of his omnipotence.

        Further who created the laws/rules that define evil? God right? So then evil existed from the outset.

        Let's go back to the Garden. Aside from wondering why was the tree in the Garden to begin with, who says that eating from the tree constitutes an act of rebellion? Only God, right? Humans without exposure to evil or rebellion would have no idea what constituted rebellion or evil. Not only would God know this, but he'd set the guidelines of what constituted evil.

        So God from the outset had a determination of what was considered a rebellious act and evil. God therefore defines evil and therefore is the creator of evil.

      • well sure there are important decisions and less important ones… but i don't get your point in pointing that out.

        you seem to fail to understand that God is first and most of all Love. so everything that is love is good, and everyhting that lacks love is bad. all the rules actually originate from this one – the Rule of Love. which is very simple – love God as your Creator who gave you life and everything else, and love those who He created just like you.
        who loves truly, doesn't need any rules. however, our love usually aint that perfect to enable us to see what is right and what is wrong in every moment of our life; therefore we need to be told it in kind of detail. these are the God's commandments for the mankind. when you analyse them, you will see they can be reduced to just two: love God and your neighbour. nothing else.

        as for the Garden…"Humans without exposure to evil or rebellion would have no idea what constituted rebellion or evil. Not only would God know this, but he'd set the guidelines of what constituted evil."…
        i will ask you… do you have children? if yes, is your best way to teach them what is right and what is wrong to not expose them to any evil? do you think that would work? for how long?
        you still don't understand free will. not giving His Creation the possibility to chose evil over good WOULD NOT ENSURE SINLESSNESS. the sin is in the HEART, the act of sin itself is consequential. not giving the first people opportunity to sin would not ensure their hearts to remail sinless. sin is the WILL to sin. therefore God is not responsible for the sin – the one who decides to sin is.

      • If sin is in the heart, who created the heart? And if sin is the will to sin, who created the will? Further, what is love?

        My point on the decisions is that not every decision carries with it a choice between good and evil, yet still allows for free will. The notion that if there was not evil, there would not be free will and we'd be robots is therefor false

      • this starts to become too much of a speculation. God is simple. so simple that those who understand Him best are the simpliest little creatures – kids.

        what is love cannot be explained, it needs to be experienced. i will just say that every child naturally love their mother when they are young and innocent. mothers, however, do not always love their children. as we grow up, our hearts get corrupted with sin, lack of trust, bad experiences which causes cynism and inability to love.

        i don't want to judge you or something, but it looks to me this is the core of your problem with God and Christianity. and i understand that pretty well… went thru that myself. i had to experience true unlimited unconditioned love first to be able to get what God is.

      • Kids experience God because kids are able to mentally exist and fully be aware of the present moment. It's easier to experience God by being fully present than by most other ways. Another easy way to experience God is by willfully giving one's time and energy to selflessly benefit another human being. This is love and at least in my mind, this is what Jesus embodied through his deeds and by his words.

        And while Christianity touches on both concepts, it also muddles these two concepts with a lot of needless dogma as a result of exclusively subscribing to the Bible and the Bible's limited (and at times erroneous) definition of God. My main problem with Christianity is that it can't say, "I don't know and even if I did know it may not be what you know."

        Rather than just say this, it has contrived a doctrine and book that attempts to explain what may well be unexplainable and then tell others they have to subscribe to their explanation or go to hell.

      • wondering what denomination do you / did you belong to. agree 100% to your description of love though.

        i hope VC doesn't mind spamming his Russel Brand topic like this πŸ˜€ however, i'd say you need to use synthesis rather than analysis here. i mean: go to the very beginning and imagine yourself as God. what would you do to let the mankind you created know about yourself? how would you make sure the truth about you would survive the ages? would you not create a Church to spread your teachings after you would have proven they really come from you? would you not give the mankind a Book so that everyone can learn from it? etc etc.

      • Baptist and Non-Denominational.

        I'm going to answer your question in a roundabout way. I agree with the where you are leading me, but my view is a bit wider.

        Here's a metaphor: My mother know, my best friend, and my ex-girlfriend are all asked to write a book about me where they give me a character assessment.

        Will all three books be identical? No.

        Would each person's character assessment of me be the same character assessment you would experience if you met me? No (especially my ex :)).

        Would you want to base your relationship with me based on one person's assessment of me? Maybe. Depends on what your experience is in getting to know me, but you'd be foolish to take one person's assessment as truth without at first getting to know me.

        Will they all be talking about the same person in their character assessment? Objectively speaking yes, but subjectively speaking no.

        And therein lies the problem. The Bible and Christian doctrine cannot have a monopoly on God because it's subjective (not to mention contradictory and illogical at times). You're better off looking to what people did to find God (in all spiritual practices, not just Christianity) versus seeking God based on what someone else tells you to believe about God.

        You and I can agree that God isn't hard to find, but I reject having my path dictated to me by something that I can't reconcile with my own experience and rationality.

      • okay my last answer for today… it's way too late here :)

        so… all this you describe would without any doubts be true when it comes to mortals. not so when it comes to God. part of my belief in Him is that He can arrange for certain things… like the truth always coming to light and such.
        so i do believe that it was Him who inspired the Book of books and that it isn't a mere human product. that could never work sufficiently either. when you compare all 4 Gospels, you can easily see they speak basically the same (and please don't start with the "cock crowed 3 times or 2 times" and this BS :P)

        so to me the Bible – both the Old and the New Testament – is inspired directly by the Spirit. if it wasn't, then there would be absolutely no point in believing it. it could've been as well a product of some utopist. nice but unreal….

        when i first of all believe Jesus is the Son of God, then i believe those who He taught – His disciples. and they say He said "I will always be with you always, till the end of the age."

        just so very briefly.

      • Jason,
        I apologize for interfering.What you experience right now or at least part that is being revealed through comments I have already gone through.

        Not until the power of the Living God touch you soul in the most intimate profound and direct way you will realize that God's alleged strictness and harsh treatment is wrong conclusion.Do not state Job's example.I would totally go through everything to be drawn near to be totally cleansed to reach new spiritual heights.

        Your time is near.My time of questioning is already behind.When Holy Spirit speaks directly to your own spirit no place for opposition is left.He is not what we think.Way greater than we will be able to comprehend.He is not after you to punish for your weakness.He is here to lift you up to cleanse to help to change life once for all.Hell is a reward for deliberately opposing His will and commiting bunch of heavy sins.You have nothing in your burden that requires extra treatment. God is with you.Forever!

      • …on a lighter note..
        LOL i read all of your comments in loki's voice
        ( loki of asgard..thors brother)

      • Hey Jason – I love you! :)
        No sarcasm, just pure appreciation for an intelligent being. Keep on keeping on! Keep asking people those questions. Not because you yourself want answers – but eventually, they'll start questioning themselves.

        Or just, you know, die blissfully ignorantly unaware and come right back to learn an even harder way…

      • Aaron-ChristisLife on

        Jason, God created everything, including Lucifer. He's every bit of omnipotent and He also granted us with free will. The bible talks about Lucifer being the the most beautiful creature God created, he was an angel. But because we have free-will, Lucifer made a choice. God knows what we will do, but we still have a choice. That is what free-will is. We don't know the future, but God in his omnipotence, knows what choices we will make Jason. God with his foreknowledge formed the earth, created everything and knows what will happen. Jason you have to understand that God is not to be compared to anything man or thing on this earth. Just as God knew that Judas would betray Him, God had a plan in place because He knew it would happen.

        Lucifer made the choice to defy God. Because he convinced himself that he was greater than God and he challenged him. I am paraphrasing the story, but in a nutshell, this is what happen. Because of Lucifer's defiance, God removed him from his position in Heaven and that's when Lucifer became a fallen angel known as Satan. So God didnt create Lucifer to be evil, he made the CHOICE to become that way, thus becoming Satan. It's not hard to understand man, I mean, we have a choice and based on the choices we make – our fates are decided. The thing is, we don't know everything that God knows, we are not the omnipotent ones, but what we do know is sufficient enough for us to understand how God works. Whether you accept it or not, the choice is yours and always will be. The greatest blessing God gave us is free will, if we abuse our free will by making the wrong choices, that blessing becomes a curse.

        Now I can provide scriptures that will back up everything I am saying, but it will do no good if you don't respect the Bible for what it is and believe in that also. Email me if you like.

      • Thanks for your answer. I'm familiar with the story of Lucifer's fall and the third of the angels cast from Heaven. Still God in his omnipotence had the power to stop it. At the end of the day God controls all. The free will argument doesn't work, because the Christian God isn't surprised. It's not as if he created Lucifer and was surprised that Lucifer chose to rebel. Because the Christian God knows all, this would be impossible and he would have known while creating Lucifer that Lucifer would rebel.

        But yet God is all-powerful, so he had the power to not create Lucifer or create Lucifer in such a manner that he didn't rebel against God. But he didn't. So the only option left is that God created Lucifer knowing full well that Lucifer would rebel against God. From there comes a chain of events that eventually leads to man's sinful nature and Christ's death on the cross.

        Given all this, then I have trouble seeing how the God according to Christianity is not responsible for sin and evil.

        Now I can see an argument for God has a plan and all of this was a part of his plan. However I don't see the rationality in it. If this God is love as the Bible says he is, why devise a plan that puts his creation through so much suffering and on top of that devise a plan where a good percentage of his suffering will spend eternity in hell? Why not devise a plan that skipped the earth step and went straight to heaven. And while we don't know God's thoughts or God's mind, he did give us a rational mind to question things and know full well (since he's all knowing) that this question would come up.

      • ChristisLife on

        Because, God wants people that will be true Christians for Him. To be a Christian means to be like Christ. He is searching for those people. Because of what happen on the earth thousands of years ago – God wants people that will live right for him. Besides that, God is giving us a chance to be saved. In our sinful nature, we won't be able to rationalize every single thing God does because we aren't omnipotent. But, I am explaining to you that God created Lucifer knowing what he would do, therefore God had a plan in place because God knew.

        Like it was mentioned earlier, God took on the sins of the world so we wouldn't have to. He is giving us a chance to make the right choices and live for him. There is evilness in this world because of the sinful nature that was created because of Satan. He knew Lucifer would rebel, but that doesn't mean Lucifer didn't have a choice. Lucifer made his choice, God just knew the choice that he'd make. Why create him knowing he'd make the choice he'd make, well because God is no respect of person, He gave Lucifer a chance just as we have a chance.

        But it's like what you said, God had the power to stop it, but if He did, we wouldn't be alive today right? We wouldn't have a chance at eternal life. Just like God when He took on the form of a man, and came as Jesus – He had the power to stop those from crucifying Him, God knew He would be crucified, and He did that so we could be saved.

        Is that rational by mans terms, When you're the all powerful – omnipotent God of the Universe, and you allow lowly human beings to beat you to death, whereas you could have stopped them with one word of power? Why didn't He just stop them right? Why did He allow them to crucify Him, Whereas the rational thing to do was to basically stop it from happening. These are questions I ask myself too, but I am reminded of John 3:16. He did it because God has a Love for us so strong that we do not even realize how much He really loves us. You say you see He has a plan, if you did, your questions would be answered simply based on God's plan of salvation. Maybe you don't fully understand the plan in detail.

        God wants people, saints, or Christians what ever you want to call it, that will be just like Him. It's kind of like a weed out process, for lack of better term. He's Searching for those who will follow Him.

      • ChristisLife on

        He had to give Lucifer a chance to make the right choice, and because of God's omnipotent power – knowing sure that Lucifer would make the wrong choice, God had a plan already in place. So if you want to know why God created Lucifer – this is why. He has to give everyone a chance. God didnt create evil-Lucifer became evil, Eve when she ate of the tree – brought evil and sin into the world. I hope this answers your questions.

      • I paraphrase Douglas Adams when I say that the kind of God that would give you apples and wait around for you to eat them is the kind of jerky trickster god that would catch you eventually doing something whether you eat them or not.

        Christianity started as a tiny cult and was yanked onto by people in power to control the masses. Its circular logic is telling – God creates people to worship and follow him and be like him. What? Sounds like an insecure and selfish act, if you ask me. Why would anyone want to follow that guy around?

      • ChristisLife on

        Wendy, it is that kind of pretentious thinking that has gotten Mankind into the mess that it is in now. Like I said in earlier statements, egotistical blasphemy toward God has caused the elite to think they are all-powerful more-so than God. Thinking like you Wendy, no wonder why they say the masses are dumb, ignorant, unintelligent, misinformed, and basically stupid. All I can do is shake my head to your comment. Anyone who refers to God as simply, "that guy," does not deserve a dignified rebuttal.

      • It's unfair to attack the person as pretentious, dumb, ignorant, etc. when they raise a logical argument.

        It's telling that many who have disbelief for the Christian God, know the Bible inside out as well as the history of Christianity, but when we challenge a Christian we get called dumb and ignorant.

        How much research have you done to back your belief? How do you reconcile the Arian Controversy or the other major schisms that the Roman elite injected into your religion at the Council of Nicea? Or the fact that the Gospels which purportedly quote Jesus verbatim was written at least sixty years after his death?

      • ChristisLife on

        Jason, there is no attack on my part. I said, that form of thinking has caused the "elite" to think the masses is dumb, ignorant, unintelligent and misinformed…Please you've misconstrued my words. However, to refer to God as a "jerky trickster" (not even sure what that means) is in fact dumb, stupid, ignorant, etc. But that's just my opinion. Not calling anyone dumb or stupid, but just the choice to reference God using those words is dumb and ignorant. And the idea that a logical argument was raised, I'd have to respectfully disagree. Where's the logic behind calling God a jerky trickster? And also, "Christianity started as a tiny cult yanked onto by people in power to control the masses"? What does that even mean? Logic? I beg to differ. It lacks logic.

        Look Jason, you can be atheist or practice whichever religion you so choose, believe what you will. As I will do the same and have my beliefs. But the entire thread has become redundant. Let's agree to disagree.

      • "God wants people, saints, or Christians what ever you want to call it, that will be just like Him. It's kind of like a weed out process, for lack of better term. He's Searching for those who will follow Him."

        To me this is a completely bizarre notion. Why create people in the first place who aren't going to be up to snuff? Why not just create a bunch of unquestioning synchophants? It sounds like some sort of twisted game. And I have the same problem with the more New Age type ideas that we are here to evolve our consciousness. Why? Isn't the "creator" consciousness already perfect? Why this need to throw all sorts of obstacles in front of people just to see if they'll rise above them? I just don't get the rationale for basically torturing people in any of these schools of thought.

      • it's because human heart got infected with pride, greed and hunger for power. to heal it, the mankind has to go thru all the evil consequencies pride, greed and hunger for power bring with them. the mankind has to suffer from the results of their own sins to be able to see what evil really is and to not want it anymore. and that involves a process, yes.

      • But who infected the heart and why? And "Satan" or some varient is not an answer in this whole construct because it still comes back to some force or entity creating extremely flawed creatures, expecting them to live up to some unattainable ideal, and then punishing them in some way (Hell, Karma, thousands of trips back to the 3rd dimension to attain enlightment with each trip getting harsher till we finally learn our lesson) when they don't.

        Another concept that I don't get is worshipping. What is that? It's such a weird thing to expect of another sentient being. What sort of entity would require others to bow down before it? Personally, I think it was made up to condition people to acquiesce to authority.

      • throughout the history, man have worshipped various entities without even being forced to, out of his own free will, just based on the inner feeling there HAS to be some entity that is worth worshipping. anyway bowing to a golden calf or whatever humiliated manking in a major way. it just showed this inner belief that is common to ALL of us, that there has to be God. so He decided to show Himself to the mankind, so that they wouldn't make fools out of themselves anymore and worship what is worth to worship. and those who are humble enough to aknowledge that He is the only entity that really deserves worshipping, do that OUT OF THEIR FREE WILL. others may as well worship Satan if they want, and many actually do.

        but worshipping the only true God never humiliates us. as it is just natural, if you could ever see Him, you would be totally overwhelmed with His glory and power. it is just so very natural to give our credit to the One who deserves it most. don't you celebrate humans who achieve something extraordinary? so what about the One who created the Universe? to me it's pretty normal to show our admiration to Him. however, it has to be done in the right way. that's why He Himself gave us rules for that. again something totally natural, since He – the Creator – knows best how His creation should adore Him without lowering themselves doing some ridiculous stuff.

        now, who infected the heart? yes, it was Satan but it happened by the act of free will of the first people. God has created perfect creatures who willingly decided to become imperfect by refusing Him and His laws. God is Order; disorder is Evil. He didn't create disorder; but He embedded this potential to CHOSE between order and disorder into His creation. if He didn't, then His creatures would have no free will to chose; they would be slaves. and He didn't want slaves, He wanted friends. you too appreciate most when your friends love you our of their free will, and not by some witchcraft, don't you πŸ˜‰

      • I enjoy reading the bios of Saints. Quite a few of them used to be pagans, prostitutes, thieves, murderers, satanists just name it. From last, they came first.

      • if God stopped evil from existing, then there would be no Creation at all. as we all have atleast a bit of it in us. you still see Creation as something programmed, is not so. the soul has to mature during its time on earth. it has to work hard to supress the evil in it and to let the good win. this life prepares us for eternity. skipping it wouldn't solve the problem πŸ˜‰

      • God's all powerful isn't he? The statements you make would be false, because your God is all powerful and through which all things are possible.

        You are asserting that your God is not all powerful and that things that happen outside of his control. From my years in church I know that this is contrary to God's character under Christian doctrine. He's the Alpha and Omega through which all things are possible.

        As a result, to deny God created evil is to slander God's omnipotent nature. You seem to be making God in the image that makes you comfortable versus accepting what the Bible says about God. Isn't that blasphemy?

      • what is possible is not always desirable…
        you might have spent years in the church but you obviously learned very little about the nature of our God. i'm sorry for that. looks like those who were to represent Him in front of you failed in their task…. they failed to show you He is Love and He respects us as His beloved Creation.
        this has to be experienced… it cannot be explained….

      • "You might have spent years in the church but you obviously learned very little about the nature of our God. "

        Why are you attacking me versus my position?

        What I stated in my previous comment about God's omnipotence lines up directly with Christian dogma. If God is omnipotent than this includes over the entry and existence of evil in the world. Even prominent Christian apologists have wrestled with this question because they understand the validity of this line of logic. To take the easy way out and to say I didn't learn much or that the church failed me is a cop out.

        At the end of the day I've done exactly what I initially set out to do- raise my questions in a public forum so that both you and more importantly anonymous visitors can judge the validity of Christianity. Time and time again the responses to most of my positions and questions have gone unchallenged or unanswered, which I believe speaks volumes in and of itself.

      • sorry if you feel attacked by this. but i think too many words have been said already to answer this question about God's omnipotence.

        okay, i'll try once more: so… if someone is omnipotent, then that means he can do everything he wants. sounds silly i know but we need to go back to the roots. do everything what one wants means not let anyone else do what they want – if that contradicts the will of the omnipotent one. if God practiced His omnipotence in such way, then He would be a slaveholder and we, His creation, would be His slaves. there would be no possibility for us to do otherwise than He wanted us to. He would thus own the whole Creation – all angels and all humans – but would that actually please Him? would he actually revel in such despotic rule and absolute dominion? of course not – cause He isn't that way at all.

        what God values most is when His Creation decides to love Him, trust Him and obey Him out of their free will, as their own free choice. but to enable this – He needs to RESPECT our free decisions. to get those who truly love Him, He needs to allow those those don't also make their decision. SO HE, ALBEIT OMNIPOTENT, DECIDED OUT OF HIS FREE WILL TO NOT FORCE HIS CREATION TO LOVE HIM. it is simply the only way how to get real friends and not just slaves. or would you prefer to be owned and handled by someone just because they're omnipotent and it is in their power to make you stay with them against your will?

        it's what the handlers of the poor mind control victims dealt with on this site actually do…. but not our God.

      • Jason, after reading your last paragraph, my question is "why"? Why do you challenge Christianity? Why do you enjoy being a stumbling block? What do you have to offer? What are your answers to life? Because no matter what you believe, evil things are still happening. Do you offer peace? Do you offer joy? Do you offer comfort? Do you offer a plan that ends suffering? Instead of challenging imperfect people whom have placed their faith in the perfect God, why don't you go directly to God? Ask Him questions, and wait for His response. You'll get it if you sincerely want the truth. If you achieve what you set out to do, which you say is to question the validity of Christianity, and someone does err from the faith, or you convince someone to not seek Jesus Christ, or you even stump a professing Christian, what have you gained? What is your purpose? I'll be praying for you.

        Galatians 6:7, "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

        1 Corinthians 3: 18-20, "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain."

        Ephesians 2: 1-5, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, THE SPIRIT THAT NOW WORKETH IN THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

        Colossians 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

        Romans 1: 18-22, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became VAIN in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,".

        We Christians respond to posts such as yours, not to glorify ourselves, but to glorify God, and to share His Word in hopes that you too will find salvation through Jesus Christ. We hope and pray for you,and others like you, to find the peace and joy that a true faith in Jesus Christ has to offer. We may not have the answers to everything you ask, but when you serve a Living Savior, you know He lives, and nobody can convince you otherwise. What again is your reasoning for your comments? Who do you wish to glorify? On what authority do you base your beliefs? Jason, I pray that you will call on Jesus Christ to save your soul, and you will go on tho glorify Him in all you say and do for the rest of your days. We Christians are rooting for you!

      • Someone once told me "You will keep searching until you find a truth that suits you."

      • Hey Jason, I am very much like yourself and had felt and thought the same things as yourself. I recently stumbled on a book called the forbidden secret your future hijacked by Johnathan Gray. I highly recommend it.

        I am by nature a skeptical person and need evidence rather than just going on "faith"… anyhow this book offers ALOT of historical and empirical evidence on a very wide range of topics… many of which you touch on here.

        I see alot of myself (old self) in your comments and i literally just finished reading this book a day or two ago, so this is a little serendipitous. … but if you are a logical and rational individual who is struggling with faith, I would definitely suggest taking a look at this book… Its pretty eye opening. … you can find it online for free like i did.

        VC … I would love to hear your take on the book as well.

      • thank you. however, it was not sufficient to make one soul see the Truth they don't want to see. faith is a gift… for those who have good will to accept it.

      • ChristisLife on

        No, it was as sufficient as it needed to be. The seed was planted, that's all we can do, God takes it from there, He gives the increase.

      • j.p., thank you so much for your in depth explanation of why there is sin and suffering on earth, and why God sent Jesus to come to take away the sins of the world to give us a chance at everlasting life. That is why it is important to study God's word, what is contained in the bible. I have a lot to learn from the bible. People have a hard time grasping what is contained in the bible because maybe they did not thoroughly understand scripture, or it may not have been translated to them correctly.
        I sincerely thank those who offer their explanation and are patient enough to give their input to others to help them understand. Many excellent responses on here. It takes time and patience to understand God's word however. A person should not allow a bad experience with a church or congregation deter them from wanting to learn about the bible. Learning about God is a spiritual journey we must go through to understand such things like ourselves, how sin affects us , why there is suffering, God's love for us, and how we can glorify God. It takes a whole lifetime for some people to understand these things, and some may never get there, but I pray that they do.

      • Hope is the trick, the hook. If you are resorting to hope you have already bought the lie wholesale, you've taken the bait.
        Faith is the line.
        Blind faith is the sinker.
        Wake up.
        You and your wisdom, tenacity, human kindness and personal power are the truth.
        Share the truth.
        Jesus was trying to illuminate the path of truth within us all.
        He would despair of the blindness and darkness propagated by religious hope and faith.
        Enlighten your self.
        Be the god within.

      • No, you are the one who has misunderstood the point of this site because VC is a Christian, and this site has done nothing but reaffirm my belief. Believers know how it will all end, it is told in the book of revelation and I see more and more of these things coming to pass all the time. I think VC has a God-given gift to see the truth and be able to convey it in a logical way, when the truth these days is stranger than fiction

      • " I was born into a Catholic family but, since I do not identify myself with the man-made institutions and dogmas surrounding religious denominations, I today simply consider myself as “Christian”."
        -from the About VC section

        So Tri, what kind of forum do you think you're in? It would be wise to keep your mouth shut when you don't know what you are talking about.

      • Jesus is real and most never got it. Read a course in miracles and you will know. There are those that do not want you to know and they want you to believe otherwise. That is the conspiracy. And they have succeeded quite well in deceiving the world and making people believe it was just a story. The love of God is also real. As for the bible, it is just a book that has been translated and changed many times and cannot really be trusted. But, as for me, I don't believe in religions. I believe in God (not the substitute).

      • Priests are human too consequently we don't trust them as you might think we do. Would you trust your kids alone with a priest? I wouldn't, not because all of them are amoral, however if I can't judge definitely who is and who isn't, I'd rather avoid completely the dilemma. Good priests are decent spiritual fathers as you attend a congregation to obtain Holy Water, you eat bread/drink red wine as a symbol of Christ's death sacrifice and you have the opportunity to participate in a spiritual union by praising God. Nonetheless, nothing matters if you don't live your life according to the teachings of Christ. I don't think higher of people who attend the Mass, surely they are not necessarily superior than others. They are normal people who have their own problems and shortcomings. Perfection is not their other name you know. There is always room for improvement, aren't we all imperfect and weak?

      • > … aren't we all imperfect and weak?

        "You are only love, but when you deny this, you make what you are something you must learn to remember" [ACIM, T 91/92]

        “No one can escape God’s final judgment. Who could flee forever from the truth? But the final judgment will not come until it is no longer associated with fear. One day each one will welcome it, and on that very day it will be given him. He will hear his sinlessness proclaimed around and around the world, setting it free as God’s final judgment on him is received. This is the judgment in which salvation lies. This is the judgment that will set him free. This is the judgment in which all things are freed with him. Time pauses as eternity comes near, and silence lies across the world that everyone may hear this judgment of the Son of God:

        ‘Holy are you, eternal, free and whole,
        At peace forever in the Heart of God.
        Where is the world, and where is sorrow now?’

        Is this your judgment on yourself, teacher of God? Do you believe that this is wholly true? No; not yet, not yet. But this is still your goal; why you are here. It is your function to prepare yourself to hear this judgment and to recognize that this is true. One instant of complete belief in this, and you will go beyond belief to Certainty. One instant out of time can bring time’s end. Judge not, for you but judge yourself, and thus delay this final judgment. What is your judgment of the world, teacher of God? Have you yet learned to stand aside and hear the Voice of Judgment in yourself? Or do you still attempt to take His role from Him? Learn to be quiet, for His Voice is heard in stillness. And His Judgment comes to all who stand aside in quiet listening, and wait for Him.”

        [ACIM M, 37]

        [Examples from A Course in Miracles, Text, Workbook for Students and Manual for Teachers ISBN 0-9606388-2-2]

      • Learning about the illuminati was what caused me to get saved. I thought of how wicked and evil these people were and felt justified at the thought of them rotting in hell but then I thought what have I done to sin against God? How can I judge these people when I'm creating the same sins they are even if its on a lesser scale. And thats when I truly felt the spirit of God an felt an urgency to be saved from hell because I realized thats where I was going. The whole purpose of people 'waking up' and discover these occult riddled secret societies that are controlling the people of the world is to turn from their sins and get right with god. Not to to complain about it on blog sites, not to try to get people to unit and fight illuminati together (because lets be real this will never happen) The main point of new world order is not only for finacial gain control or power its for the devils agenda to get as much human beings in hell as possible. The devil hates us because god loves us. Thats the final peice of the 'conspirasy jigsaw puzzle' to recognized that we are sinners living in a sinful world that need to be saved so we wont be puniahe for our sins in hell but have eternal life in heaven. In the bible this has already been predicted when God says fou our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Its a fight between us God and the Devil. God wants us to know of his love and save us, satan wants to steal from us kill and destroy us. Make you choice.

      • How anyobe can believe that the illuminati exists and accepts that these elitist are a bunch of satan worshipers and yet not believe in God is simply baffles me. There is evil but there is also good, no other faith warns you about the new world order except for the bible, no other faith predicted that these evil illuminati ploys were to happen. No other faith provides a way for you to be saved from punishment for your sins. Why do u think all of a sudden people are waking up? You think the whole purpose of discovering these conspiracy theories is to sit around bitch about the elitis and twiddle our thumbs? No its to realize that we need a savior in this crooked world and to spread that truth to others. Satan may have won this battle with this earth, most of us will probably slaughtered and put into fema camps to die, but God has already won the war, heaven Is the reward for those who choose to believe in Jesus and to have protection love and guidance while we remain in this sinful world.

      • The Holy Bible is a book for adults-it's full of layers, symbolism, and archeologically proved history. It's far too deep for some. Do some real research instead of parroting Thomas Paine.

      • Skelly Namanav on

        Mind Blown… Not so much that anyone of you managed to say anything I have not already thought before, quite the contrary. This debate has been raging in my mind since I was 4 years old, starting with Jason's first questions. I am now 31 And Jason if you are reading this, this is for you since I can definitely relate. The best conclusion Ive come to is another question that supersedes all of your others. In order to answer your questions you first have to answer the one no one on Earth ever has. What is the meaning or purpose of life period? I believe without the answer to that, the other questions you propose immediately become unanswerable. I didn't ask to come here, or did I? those are the more important questions aren't they?

      • Skelly Namanav on

        Contrarily if ultimate punishment for wrongdoing here on Earth seems so outlandish, if there really is no true reason to be moral, would you then mind if I just destroyed the entire Earth with everyone in it? Honestly Ive been down some deep dark roads contemplating these things and don't you agree that it would be perfectly rational then if there is no punishment awaiting us in the end and that all there is here on earth is suffering and death as far as the eye can see, (if not immediately inevitably?) Would I then not be doing existence a favor by wiping it all out thus sparing it this "hell" that we are so much a part of?

    • Mrs M, I completely agree!!!! I was just gonna say what an insult it is to lump Holy Jesus into a category of sinners! All of the people he mentioned were Wonderful, however imperfect. Jesus is the only One in the category of Perfect.

    • Where is your solid hard proof, not your belief in a man made book and faith, come on now its 2013. The bible is just another guide to worship the sun.

  8. that was surprising, he is much more intelligent than I thought.

    first of all, did you see the fire in his eyes when that woman in the blue dress says something like "i'm told he's a big deal"? way to insult the talent, lady.

    however, blue dress lady came off as a nutcase,admitting to mental illness, the sidekicks came off as gibbering idiots fixated on chest hair, and Russell brand came across as the person who should truly be doing their jobs.

    again though, russell brand is also manipulating information to do a comedy tour and get attention and make money. so no one has pure hands.

    • Yeah, he was married to Katy Perry for over a year – so he knows what's going on. I don't trust him at all. I think this is smoke and mirrors.

      • +1 I think he's a controlled asset. I also think he's tavistock or freemason or something.

    • I can't shake the feeling that this discourse was staged to make him appear to challenge the status quo and play up his intellect by juxtaposing it with 3 people behaving like frightend squirrels. Maybe I'm giving them all too much credit, but it would've been an extremelt astute marketing ploy it definitly changed my view of him. He really doesn't seem like the sort of person to tollerate Katy Perry for more than 5 min let alone marry her. But, the woman in blue was acting so oddly and their responses to his aggression were so inauthentic and cartoonish it just didn't seem real.

      • misericordia on

        I live in the UK and I have closely followed Russell's career since 2006, I can assure you this was as REAL as it comes from him, in fact he wasn't outspoken enough. I can be almost sure that you haven't so much as done a brisk google/youtube search on Russell and yet you’re spouting paranoia veiled in logic. If you had done so you would have come across videos that demonstrate that he is intensely spiritual:, highly intelligent and aware:, has his own tv show called brand X where he has promoted consistently alternative topics to wake the sheep as it were and invited guests such as David Icke (whom he has interviewed before) Further to that, he has declared his support for Ickes latest project called the People’s radio: 'I am excited by David's new venture. We all complain about media bias and now we will have an outlet beholden only to the people. I think it will be crazy and fun and I hope to be on it.' – Russell Brand As a former drug addict he has also become and outspoken ambassador for a visionary drug policy reform in the UK: The list could go on, but to surmise he is AWARE of the manipulation etc in the system. The reason the interviewers were so perturbed (particularly the woman in blue) is because he masterfully worked his unsettling charisma, charm, confidence and intensity on unsuspecting robots (whilst trying to woo the lady in blue, he's a pro at that) and then naturally exploited the ridiculous situation to his advantage.

        Now in relation to Katie. He is a former sex addict and by his own admission has a big ego and again by his own admission continues to battle with issues pertaining to addiction, hunger for fame and attention and ego control. A common theme in his autobiography 'My Booky Wook' is his yearning to meet an archetypal goddess like woman who he can powerfully connect with. In fact, he finishes some of his diary entries (found in the book) with ‘I will find her..’ This may sound cliché but this man operates on a different level entirely and he would not be content with a woman until they could both achieve a strong transcendental union. Nevertheless, he stills falls prey to lust and desire (ego) and a genuinely love of women, hence the sex and drug addictions and 'womanizing' reputation he’s cultivated. Just look at how he works his unsettling charisma, charm, intensity on news presenters (mainly women) as he’s able to read people with such astuteness. (etc) Anyway his relationship with Katie (somebody that he had previously attested to finding attractive in his UK radio show at the time) (ego) came as he was achieving a vast amount of recognition (fame) in the US. A toxic mix in his case. Russell was swept away in the current of paparazzi, attention, fame, excitement, an attractive and feisty woman who carried an ethereal presence due to her notoriety (he probably confused that with the goddess archetype he was in search of), I of course don’t know how their relationship was but I always knew with utter conviction that it wouldn't last. It was him falling prey to his usual demons and I’m sure he came to that painful realization in the end.

        Also, people PLEASE don’t confuse Russell the person (who I admire) with Russell brand the performer (whom I don’t particularly like) these are two very different Russells and he'd be the first to admit so.

      • random mundane on

        Icke has done plenty to set back the truth movement. There is quite a lot that indicates he is controlled opposition.
        And, you leave out the fact that KP is wholly in on the game, and shown plenty of signs of being a victim of kitten programming.

        Furthermore, it's hard to trust anything, I mean anything on msnbc. This could've easily been rehearsed.

      • Katy Perry appears to go for losers. Maybe it's an internal wish to so she can be independent and not in a committed relationship for too long. Brand was sexually abused as a child, he'll never ocercome that fact, then she was with that singer Mayer/Mayor whatever he's called, another weirdo for reasons I don't know as I was never interested in finding any information on him. I don't think she wants her relationships to last and that's why she always go for men like that.

      • Andy. Your comment " Brand was sexually abused as a child, he'll never ocercome that fact" is /incredibly offensive/ – consider the fact that 1 in 3 women are sexually abused, and 1 in 6 men (George Mason University, Worldwide Sexual Assault Statistics, 2005). You are discriminating against a vast group of people who have been through enough without you judging them.
        I hope that you overcome (or ocercome as you wrote) your bigotry.

      • Its not that I doubt his intellect. I'm very familiar with him as well, and have read his book. I think you missunderstood my comment. It's that I doubt that this discourse was real. I really don't think it was. The "reporters" seemed to be putting on an act. At the least there reactions were not typcal of a person being confronted this way. They let him take over the interview to the point that I too would've asked if they were being paid.

      • I think it was just they are used to ppl cowering to the media machine and thought he would come in as some clown deferring to them but he showed inner power and completely dominated the situation.

    • you're right no one has pure hands, because we're in this world, and in one way or another we all succumb to certain evils or guilty pleasures. On every level, and in every class of society the manipulation and manipulators are present

  9. I've saw this. Those anchors are so PATHETIC that i feel shame.

    "soulless, sterile and insipid nature of mainstream media" – couldn't agree more. Here in Brazil, we're basically monopolized by a mainstream media corporation called Globo Organizations. Their work can be perfectly described as "soulless, sterile and insipid". Fits just well!

      • he's a gemini, that's why he's so irritating
        initially they appear to be fun as they can be chameleons, wait until they show their real face the two-faced dumbos they are.

      • no he isn't. he would've been Gemini had he been born like 2.000 years ago. but today those dates are already out of date – due to the Earth precession. when he was born, the Sun was still in Taurus. check it πŸ˜‰

      • JamesWatchman I strongly agree. But many of VC readers are heavily into various occult practices.Even I noticed that.

      • ouch give us a break, I wouldn't say heavily, only out of curiousity. There are some coincidences concerning star signs though.

      • the three Wise Men were astrologers and found the Baby Jesus thanks to their knowlegde of the stars… interesting, isn't it? in Orient stars always played an important role. and they definitely do also now becuase the whole Universe is a system we're all part of.
        what is rubbish about astrology, though, is when one uses it to get to know about their future. this is forbidden by God, as well as all kinds of fortune telling. we are no allowed to know our future as that would lead to calculations and no one would act spontanneously anymore so this life would have no sense as a means for purification of our souls.
        however, the stars can tell us a lot about our natural dispositions and personality – only they need to be studied from the correct point of view and not like the atrologers usually tell ppl, not even knowing about the changes of the Sun positions in zodiac πŸ˜‰

      • also, a Christian doesn't need to know abour their future as they believe God is more powerful than anything else and everyhting is in His holy hands so we can be sure that for those who rely on Him fully everything will always come out well. we who believe in our Almighty God can be completely safe about our future.
        so, as a Christian, i really don't need and don't want to ask the stars about my future. anyway, they do help me to know about myself, about my identity, since i used to be told i'm Pisces my whole childhood and could never identify with that… lol.
        i believe that whether ppl admit it or not, astrology still has a significant impact on our perception of ourselves as well as the others – so we should atleast know how it really is.

  10. I can't explain to you how GENIUS this was. Russell Brand, who is NOT a news commentator just made those who are nervous as hell. WOW.

  11. Wow—that was incredibly weird. Are the people delivering our news really that stupid? But then again their only job is to read whats put in front of them.

  12. VC, why don't you make a Tumblr account where you post blogs and analyses and what not there? I think you'd garner a big following and people would have the ability to "like" and reblog your stuff. I think it would be a great platform for you as I don't believe that there are many like you on Tumblr.

  13. I love how he keeps on bringing up how superficial the mainstream media is and how they are not able to speak of meaningful things, yet all the anchors continue to change the subject every time he directs the subject at them. I feel like people who cannot handle confrontation are part of the problem. No one wants to talk about the truth anymore because it has been so watered down and convoluted that it is now just labeled as "conspiracy theory." I hate those two words, the truth, especially when it is well documented, is not a conspiracy theory, and just because no one discusses it doesn't mean it's not relevant or important. I quit watching the large news networks years ago, CNN, Fox, NBC and the BBC, because they are manipulated distractions from the real issues in the world. These networks and their puppets disgust me.

    • Not for nothing, but these people are trained in how to interview and read a teleprompter. Its really not that hard to throw them off, especially when you are around the media block enough to know their patterns.

  14. Zig Zag Wanderer on

    "You do this for a living?" LMFAO!!!

    Why was Mika backing away from him like he was Satan or something? And the comment about not understanding his accent was just so plain rude. Is this how robots react around a human?

    I wish they would have let him explain a bit about his views on Jesus, Guevara et. al. and the misappropriation of their image in media and society. Really provocative subject. Can't people handle sustenance and depth?

    • It is ABSOLUTELY relevant. Mika was flustered BECAUSE she was attracted to Russell, and he let her know he had her number on it! "Shaft-grasper." "Take off that ring, because it don't mean nothin' to ya."

  15. Ms. Adventure on

    I used to think that Brand was a random brainless "fly-by-night" celeb, but he has been impressing me more and more with his recent statements. (I recommend VCers research some of his recent writings – he is very articulate and aware.)

    I hope that he is being sincere and is not merely a shill/puppet for "controlled opposition." I also hope that when he alludes to enlightened leaders who are killed for their beliefs, he is not foreshadowing anything foreboding regarding his own self. :-/ Sometimes I wonder…..

  16. chocolatehobnob on

    People in the UK have known for a long time that he's an intelligent, well-informed guy. As he himself says, don't go by appearances or style- listen to the content.

    • So very true! Anyone who listened to his Radio show should remember how he used to reference a revolution and an agenda. I myself thought he'd sold out when he went to America, but this gives me hope that he's not just a puppet.

  17. Publicity stunt or not, those last two minutes were gold.

    Personally, I think the over-the-top discomfort on the part of the anchors was real – they're so incredibly ditzy they cannot fumble up a halfway intelligent response to a well-spoken human being who points to real issues rather than fluff. We need some microexpressions pros to take a look at this!

  18. ChristisLife on

    Just another example of a person revealing a form of truth to viewers being labeled as crazy, extreme or incomprehensible. Nowadays, "the truth" is becoming so non-existent that when it comes, people do not understand it, nor accept it – because they are so use to the lies, propaganda and corruption, that when the truth comes it's like speaking a foreign language that people don't understand. How about we order a Rosetta Stone for the mainstream media and self-proclaimed elite that teaches them how to speak the truth.

  19. The anchors are usually told what to say via their ear monitors. I’m sure when Russell started talking about important issues they were told to bring up silly stuff, like the way he talks, to take the conversation back to stupidity.

  20. That was really strange! The woman in the blue dress just seemed like she was acting to me…..a bad actor at that. It was like the ancors were putting on some weird skit or something. I dont think they were really that nervous.

    • Her body language would beg to differ with you. Can't fake that, and Russell called her out on it. πŸ˜‰

    • I thought so too. I'm really sceptical about this russell-figure..
      Once he had obey-pendant that he flashed to Katy Perry and it seemed that her alter changed.. it's in utube..
      maybe the guy is a handler?

  21. Who knows what the agenda behind this might be , an onion has many layers… Even though deep down I hope he was sincere one cant help to wonder if there is some kind of Agenda. I mean they know how he is and how he can manipulate the direction of a show , why let him on in the first place if they knew what he was capable off…

    It might also be that his troubled past with narcotics(especially heroin) allowed him mentally to rise above the status quo. He is very aware of the current agenda , I quest the question is would the establishment allow someone like him on their platform not playing their game ?

    If this is not the case and he pulled it off on his own with out hidden intentions the guy is a bloody GENIUS!!!!

  22. Ha that was funny! But dosnt Russell Brand have a tattoo of an eyeball on his arm? I can also remember some of his stand up about a year or so ago where he was using the federal reserve or 1% or something to justify a one world currency or government. I don't remember the details but I am pretty good at figuring out who our enemies are and I promise Russell Brand is no good. Thanks for the article VC.

      • One example: the Hippie movement. Controlled opposition. See also: major world religions

      • Thanks.
        It was eye-opening to me to find out the hippie movement was created by the PTB. Talk about being totally faked out. sigh
        I was wondering what examples of Russell would support that he is controlled opposition(not that I doubt it.)

      • I think the show was called brand x. The fact that he is constantly pushed down our throat by Hollywood should be enough for any VC to approach this man with caution.

  23. OK, this is more of a general comment: What I don't get about all this – what's the point?

    I am not blind to all these symbols, something is going on, but I don't get the purpose. These Illuminati/satanists/whatever seem to control the whole entertainment industry, commerce and finance, and the most powerful governments. They have also all the mind-control facilities in place all and they seem to be well versed with the occult and may be even in contact with real-life demons.

    They rule the world already! What more do they want? If I would secretly control the world, I would try my best to be shut about it, and not flaunt it everywhere with symbolisms.

    All their "work" strikes me as redundant, given that they rule already and achieved their goals ten times over. What's their point with all this bragging-off?

    On this site it's implied they want to start a war to depopulate the earth – but why?! As I said, they are in power already. What's the point risking it with a war on a global scale? I would even argue that a big population might be even easier to control than a smaller one – group dynamics and all that.

    • The reason might not be the same for everything. The symbols may be meant to demoralize us, to reveal something, or to convince us to act in a certain way. The people who want to depopulate may actually be trying to do something good for humanity. For common folk, it may be hard to see beyond our own world view, since we've never been in the position of having everything. If these people could accept Jesus as their savior, they might see things differently too.

    • There is already a one world government and they already do rule most of the physical plane…but their imbalance lead them to crave more of the material. It can never be enough, so the show continues. To what end? Towards perfection, of course. A perfect 100-200 years of age on the physical plane spent in wealth and luxury and hedonism for the 1%, and a controlled culture of subhuman toys with which to play. Will this plan work? I dunno, hasn't yet, but its kind of faulty to predict the future based on our supposed past. It just might. Who knows? Part of the propaganda is the illusion of total control whilst also building actual control up. So while its interesting to look into things like symbols and listen to media insiders "rebel", they usually just fit in to a larger game which you have agreed to submit to by coming here in the first place. And by here I mean your life in its current incarnation.

      To me, it is unreasonable to think that humans and humans alone would be driven for thousands and thousands of years towards achieving total domination over most of their brethren. There are things behind that curtain, to be sure.

    • "They rule the world already! What more do they want?"
      They want complete control, complete SUBMISSION. Don't get it twisted – they want you to believe that they have all control. They DON'T. Not with people like us around…the ones who ask questions, the ones who call out BS, the ones with morals and consciousness, the ones who won't bow down to "the majesties", the ones with humanity, the ones "off the grid". WE are the ones they are most frightened of, because collectively we have immense power against them. Hence, the more of "US" there are – the more fearful THEY are of being exposed…like a cornered animal, they attack, so they push their agenda (in the form of symbolism etc) as much as they can to indoctrinate whoever is left for the taking.

      • In reality that is false. there are enough resources to support billions more people than we already have. There always must be an enemy or a problem for some person or group to take control of.

      • Jasmine Pickett on

        God supplies us with everything we need. Alot of the things we have we dont need we want. Humans are a curse that why we die

    • the point of bragging off is marking the territory. it's just that… even though most people have no clue but they themselves know, and it's enough.

    • In a word, their greedy! There is no such thing as enough for them. There is no peace, joy or contentment for them. Demons from hell are never happy and can't stand it when others are and that's what they are. I imagine the elite have nothing better to do than to hatch plans and schemes to get more of what they already have. No one ever said they were smart though and can't seem to grasp the concept that there is such a thing as going too far. I firmly believe the hell they plan for the rest of us is the one THEY will fall into, but they are so arrogant until they can't wrap their minds around that. So they are just plain ole greedy.

    • Asker, their main goal is having humans completely disconnected from the true nature of our existence. Controlling the "physical world" (quantum physics is starting to show that there's not such a thing as physicality anyway) is just one piece of the puzzle. Their war is not a war of money and politics, it is a war of consciousness. Everything they do they do it to keep our sense of reality trapped in a cage, and to keep us ignorant about the fact that we are consciousness and that we are connected to cosmic laws as much as the rest of the creation. They need us in that weakened state because they get stronger that way.

    • You're right. Now many what clever antics they come up with and how they try and put "truth" into some of their music, standup, videos, etc. They are the biggest perpetrators of the Elites bullshit. They have gotten themselves into something that they cant get out of and they are taking the deaf, dumb and blind down with them. I have to admit that what he did was clever.

    • a puppet.?.. ..that could not be further from the truth…. do some research and check out this brilliant mans life …I would bet you'd Not call him a puppet to his face…..he'd floor you…. with his eloquence of course…his command of the english language is a joy to behold..

      • I definitly remember him hosting an mtv award ceremony preaching about how obama needed to be our next president. He is a puppet.. just an intelligent one

    • If you think he is still a "puppet", at least he is a puppet with PURPOSE. He is educating people and those of us in the know are aware that mainstream media are all part of the agenda. He's one of the few who are brave enough to say so.

      • The few that are brave enough to say so and are allowed to do so in public are….shills. A shill to throw to the masses to let us think the tide will turn and we just have to wait long enough. Hes a modern Jesus, don't you know?!

      • In that case, VC is a shill too? Don't be so naive Wendy. Sure, there is evil in the world, but is it so hard to fathom that there is some good left in people (and the establishment) who are speaking out and want to see change? What's your opinion on all these whistleblowers being murdered? Were they all just shills until they were silenced?

      • If Russell Brand ends up dead, Ill eat my hat. There is plenty of good left in almost all people, that's why its so easy to control the masses. We trust so easily in authority because we cant possibly expect them to have such deviant ends.

        As far as Russell Brand goes, most signs point to shill. This interview gave me a few laughs, but so do episodes of Saturday Night Live and Family Guy – both brain rotting, agenda-laden shows. Possibly well intentioned shill, but I doubt it. That's just my ~personal opinion~. He might be the second coming of Jesus for all I actually know.

        The whistleblowers being murdered get little to no coverage as do their works. Keep in mind that no ones life really has value in the mind of the elites, even the lives of their own kind and their own tools (kind of like the Mob, but worse)….so silencing a few shills here and there to make the crowds go "GASP!! They really ARE in control!!!!" could easily be part of things.

      • winston smith on

        Re: whistleblowers being murdered: most recently, Michael Hastings, war correspondent who ran Gen. McChrystal from his post. Of course, foul play was ruled out immediately, just like when Breitbart died, and the prop master for the latest batman movie (the one responsible for the sandy hook map, etc).

        "Coroner’s Lt. Fred Corral says that the findings on the cause of death are deferred pending the results of toxicology tests expected in eight to 10 weeks."

        Plenty of time to cover all the bases. OH btw, he was 33.

    • Yep, absolutely. You think they would let someone blow the whole kettle of fish now on mainstream tv?? Please. Don't take any wooden nickels folks!

  24. Hey VC, check this out:

    "Journalists who mess with government and military power often die under mysterious circumstances. Michael Hastings, the fearless journalist whose reporting brought down the career of General Stanley McChrystal, has died in a car accident in Los Angeles, Rolling Stone has learned. He was 33. One woman in the area described it sounding ‘like a bomb went off in the middle of the night’"

    STASI mode on in US. :/

  25. I love how visibly uncomfortable they all were. Russell was great. That was my question too, why WERE they referring to him as if he wasn't there. I learned that was inappropriate etiquette in the 7th grade. These trusted and seemingly smart news anchors should definitely know better. Do they get paid to sit there and chuckle at every guest that passes through? Because they didn't ask him a single relevant question.

    • Every generation needs that Bill Hicks, and David Cross just isn't cutting it anymore. Let the voice of rebellion be controlled!

    • Yes he was Katys handler. No matter how intelligent he seems to be, and toying with the news anchors was clever, the fact remains. Hey VC, please do a story on the handlers.

      • Katy was like this WAY before Russel came along. If anything Russel seemed to shot into fame more since his marriage to Katy. Now that they are divorced, it's almost like he isn't relevant anymore.

  26. Bravo Russell …..Truth….it has such a wonderful ring to it… a rare and wonderful moment. …Wakey wakey… thanks Russell…

  27. The more I see this the more I think this was staged.. The way that woman kept drinking every few seconds just seemed over acted. It's too much like a skit on snl or something

    I definitly remember him hosting an mtv award ceremony preaching about how obama needed to be our next president. Which makes me belive he is apart of the agenda.. The marriage to Katy Pery also makes me suspicious.

    • Its obvious you know nothing about this brilliant Man… Russell is much loved in the UK and your remarks are insulting and untrue …Russell is our John Lennon…they just don't get him' in the USA YET!…he is so Real (they've forgotten how to behave around a genuine Human being..and his intelligent awareness frightens the hell out of them'..

      • Have you ever listened to the words of imagine all the people? That song is about satanism and depopulation.. John lennon was a part of the agenda as well. These people are not what you think they are . Stop worshiping people you dont even know on a personal level as if they were gods. This is what is truely wrong with the world.

      • The Beatles were also part of the agenda.
        it's enough to just look at some of their album covers and photo shoots, clearly designed by Illuminati handlers.

    • Well how long ago was that mtv ceremony? I can tell you a handful of other celebrities who were also riding for BO back then, but not anymore. That was years ago. With your reasoning, are they not allowed to evolve? Perhaps he woke up to the lies? Perhaps he realized he was being played for a fool? Cut the guy some slack, at least he called out BS when he saw it. Something a lot of other public figures are unwilling to do.

      • "at least he called out BS when he saw it"
        and gave two sharp plugs for two thorns in American security and foreign policy. ( Assange #3?)

        My take is that they let an English urban fox into the front parlour of America. ..darned if I know if it was a set up or what. Maybe thats what things are about at the moment.. a big dose of cognitive dissonance for everyone, …tides of thinking lapping till they lull?

      • Its not that they cannot "evolve" as you say. Im just saying be aware. Just because it may seem awesome what he did there does not mean he isn't pushing an agenda. His immorality and his past make me very skeptical . Dont get caught up in him , he knows exactly what he is doing. He is no idiot…

    • If this is the truth then I'll be very dissapointed because he's really a funny guy and intelligent and spontaneous etc

      • well, i think it's very hard to find someone that's not part of the agenda in entertainment today

    • whether or not he's part of the agenda, he could still clash with individuals that are a-holes to him especially with his sort of personality. I don't even think we should read so much into this apart from understanding that American TV News is a barren wasteland.

  28. " But the sole thing which the West lacks, in order to penetrate in
    exact natural-scientific research into all that pertains to the living
    organism and the soul and spirit, appears most clearly, perhaps, in the
    following words of Dr. Rudolf Steiner, quoted from his autobiography :f
    " What was lacking in those who strove to go beyond the mechanistic
    interpretation of the world was primarily the courage to say to themselves
    that one who would surmount this mechanism must surmount also the
    habits of thought which have brought him to this. A confession demanded
    by the times failed to appear. It is this : that, by taking the direction of
    the senses, man penetrates into that which is mechanistic. In the
    second half of the nineteenth century, this orientation had become
    habitual. Now that the mechanistic has failed to satisfy, one should
    not seek through the same orientation of attention to penetrate into the
    higher spheres. The senses in man evolve of themselves. But he will
    never perceive through what they bestow upon him anything other
    than the mechanical. If he wills to know more, then he must, from
    •within himself, give to the deeper-lying powers of knowledge a form
    such as Nature gives to the senses. The powers of knowledge for the
    mechanical are awake of themselves ; those for the higher forms of reality
    must be awakened."

  29. Sigmund Freud's Ego on

    You can never be too sure. I think he was really serious because remember when he hosted the MTV awards where Kanye took the mic from Taylor, I forgot what year that was but he was saying how its crazy that in America we don't have health care but over there in the UK everyone has free health care, even bums on the street. It was made for comedy but he was telling the truth. Also one of my teachers was acting kinda strange when I bought up the pineal gland and its true capabilities and how fluoride calcifies it and fluoride is in everything, municipal water supplies food, toothpaste, everything, chewing gum. It's not healthy but yet it is approved by the ADA and the FDA. When fluoride is handled in the labs it has a skull and crossbones on it because it is dangerous. The teacher just was acting strangely like I wasn't supposed to know this and she was trying to change the subject. There is a guy that is an elderly man who never brushed his teeth a day in his life just ate apples and however he cleans them but his teeth were healthy. The pineal gland has to be important because the vatican have a huge statue of a pine cone outside. The pineal is shaped like a pine cone hence the name pineal, even the little rod that the pope carries have a pine cone at the end of it.

    • Zig Zag Wanderer on

      How would one go about cleaning up their pineal gland from such damage, or is it even possible?

      • Metaphysical intention of the individual coupled with avoidance of pineal-calcification materials and introduction of pineal decalcifying materials. Googling can bring multiple decalcification materials easily to you, though seeing the world through clearer eyes is a harsh side effect :)

      • Sigmund Freud's Ego on

        Yes there is a way. Go to this site read the article and most importantly the comments… like wendy11 said when your pineal is really activated then you see things differently. This guy said that he was doing third-eye meditations and eating healthy to keep his pineal clean and he got so depressed because it was too intense for him. He said he was telepathically conversing with plants and all kinds of shit. A lot of people say that if your not ready then don't try. But we can do all kinds of things with our pineal because it is the first eye. some call it the third eye but really the pineal is formed before our eyes are during the growth of the fetus. It even reacts to sun and all that. The vatican knows this, hence the huge pine cone statue.

      • When developing psychic awareness (or spiritual awareness, whatever term makes you comfortable), you have to also develop your defenses against the negative energies that can dwell in those spaces. It should be a gentle, slow and deliberate process. To me, its one of the most powerful things you can do to attempt to "live off the grid" in this day and age.

      • Does anyone else think Metaphysics is just a small piece of an infinite puzzle. Ziggy, just don't ingest flouride anymore

      • I just meant individual intent on a spiritual/emotional level. Didn't mean to use metaphysical as a buzzword. There are many ways to break down the pineals calcification, but because the body is a total system, one should tackle liver congestion and lymphatic health as well. Keep everything moving, and keep your spiritual intentions clear to yourself. It must be handled on physical and spiritual levels.

  30. Strange4sumchange on

    Can i just say… as vigilant citizens, Lets not all just jump on his bandwagon assuming he's all team "us". I will never forget the fact the this is the same man that hosted the 2009 mtv movie awards which was the same show that we all can agree was a ritual on the grandest scale. and he starred in that movie get him to the greek which had crazy symbolism in it. ever since that award show i've taken everything about him with a huge grain of salt. I do enjoy his comedy and im certain he's enlightened about most thats wrong with this world but it wont negate the fact that he's still a PUPPET FOLLOWING AN AGENDA. what agenda as of right now im not sure, but im gonna keep my eyes open on him…

  31. Intelligent comedy indeed, unless he's secretly hiding something that many people don't know much about…..if its in relation to MK ultra and the illuminati

    • Zig Zag Wanderer on

      I'm sure he knows a lot about the industry. I'm sure he will start revealing bits in his act, and it will be played off as all jokes.

  32. Whenever I see pics of him, he usually has crazy eyes…that weird bugged out, crazy eye look. Can't trust him. I don't know if this was fake or real, very weird how the news anchors were acting. I never see programs like this so I don't know if that's how they usually talk and act. Some people just have a way with words, it can make them sound smarter than they actually are. Not saying he's stupid, but people are often fooled into believing things because of fancy speach, how many leaders get elected because of that? What do they usually turn out to be?

    His marriage was also strange to me, they didn't really seem that in love and who divorces someone via text message? It's almost like the marriage wasn't even intended to last long, it sounds like it was a business relationship meant to boost his popularity in the US. Mabye he's one of those men that dates down, but katy perry to me, intellectually, is in the league of beyonce, don't really understand how he would put up with a woman like that.

  33. Also I read an article where katy perry claims there was a dark secret in their relationship, and realized that it wasn't her fault for the breakup…I wonder what that could of been? She's probably a mindless slave and didn't realize the marriage was phony.

  34. from big brother spin-off show host to "telling the truth". you guys have been star stricken. pay attention.

  35. Russell is no mass-man to all appearances. He's his own man; an autonomous spirit, resistant to the bacilli of fascism. You want to fight the Illuminati agenda? Be an autonomous spirit.

    • Who are his worshippers? Hes pretty funny, and I am sure a lot of people like watching him but I highly doubt he has a die-hard fan base like Katy Perry. He was known for being a walking british rock star parody, but probably grew out of everyone treating him as if he were an imbecile.

      Mtv is known to underpay their workers, my best guess is that he is just another disgruntled freemason-hatin' ex-employee. Lets wait and see I guess?

      • i watch daily show and laugh when jon stewart makes a funnie. but, at the same time i am aware of the fact that jon stewart agrees with bill o'reilley when it comes to 9/11, for instance. being intelligent and being able to throw in a few funnies does not, i repeat, DOES NOT make you anti-NWO. but hey, since we live in a world where assange or snowden are "heroes", i guess we shouldn't be surprised that some people are praising this ex big brother spin-off show host for making a few funnies and saying, can you imagine (?), that "media brainwashes sheeple".

  36. Haha! I almost fell for it but I knew better. Russell Brand's association with David Icke, who is buddies with Alex Jones gave it away. I must admit they are very good cointel-pro agents in the truth movement to have quite a lot of supposedly "awake" people still under their spell.

  37. roadtriptoouttaspace on

    it was a painfully ovivious staged promotion stunt. no illuminati agenda detected or revealed. you´re welcome.

    • Well said, he didn't say anything that shocking, everybody already knows that about the media, it's not like he's the only one saying it. The news anchors just acted too weird and unnatural, like they were trying to play along. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me. He wouldn't be as famous and getting movie roles if he really was against the industry and promoting truth. I might be biased because there's just something about him I've never liked…I don't know what it is, there's something I just find creepy about him.

  38. I really liked this. He (Russel) chanced my thought process of how I really thought he seemed to be.
    He is fast and furiously funny!

  39. Good old Russell. More power to the Brits. No disrespect to Americans, but the way these newscasters behaved sometimes gives credence to the view that the rest of the world thinks Americans are ignorant. I know it's just a generalisation. RB can be intimidating, he has presence, his eyes tell a lot and he's fantastic at playing with words. Watched him on Piers Morgan last week and he was brilliant. I read his articles in the Huff Post and the one about Thatcher's death was so eloquent. He's on BBC Question Time tonight with BoJo (another nutter. Boris Johnson.) It's a must watch. He thoroughly rattled them. Still, he's part of the Establishment.

    • The rest of the world can think whatever it wants, it has fallen to the agenda of the Rothchilds just as easily as ~ignorant Americans~ have.

  40. Charles Frith on

    People who don't like Russell can't see that he is a reflection of ourselves. That's unsettling for some but powerful for those who can take a good harsh look in the mirror. He's a higher spiritual being.

  41. Hum.I feel like world nowadays has become a really bad drama-it's always people that nobody take serious,with a idiot image, that expose industry.Reminds me of the Cabin in the Woods where this "creepy" guy,labeled as the "conspiracy theorist" was actually right.It's really interesting the way media give us information-the people who seems the most reliable are the biggest liars.So when the masses ,without any information,will watch this interview for example,we 'll have reactions like "Ah!!this guy is way too stupid" , "How can he do so dumb statements..",and on the contrary ,same people will praise every stupidity Obama,or another will state..

  42. The nirvana complex on

    Ok. If he's control opposission then what's the whole point of this appearance? I don't live in US neither in UK. So I don't know this guy. But what he says is the truth even if that was staged. So what's the point?

    • Masses feel safer knowing we have someone in a famous position that is "shining light on the dark". Quells active rebellion, which is the point of everything.

    • Also, he made it a point to cancel appearances in the Middle East because his "personal safety couldn't be guaranteed". More public fuss about how whitey has to fret about the modern Islam as an enemy instead of real recognition that conflicts have funding from the same sources on both sides, including the newest war on Islam.

      • He did not cancel his appearances in the Middle East. He was banned. He said so himself. Oh wait, he must be shill. Right Wendy?

      • Apparently we have read different things. What I read is that he cancelled his own appearances. Did I hit a sore spot?

    • Well consider the source. How many asleep people are going to see Russell Brand speaking on the news and take anything he says seriously. They let comedians and crazies like Charlie Sheen opine on the "truth". But the people we should REALLY be hearing from are silent. That way, when someone brings up controleld media, they'll think its all a big LAFF a la Russell Brand. Get it?

      • The nirvana complex on

        It's called 'irony' when you say something serious through the joke. Get it? By the way this is a very good thing. Actually I don't trust immediately anyone who says something like what this man said. But sometimes people get too paranoid about conspiracy and they see it in every subject of our life. Of course none of us is the God or the 'new Moses' or the prophet etc. Everyone mistakes. Why do you think there must be the person who aware of all the secrets this world hides and who should be followed by others? You should keep YOUR mind on and YOUR eyes open. That's probably all.

      • Yes.. I know what irony is, dear. However, most people won't get the irony they'll just think: Russel Brand=Funny/silly, therefore everything he says=Funny/silly.

  43. 4444rrtycyfygfrt on

    he was a bit rude in my view.
    i want to point out that just recently the major crash of us economy had started, most likely. watch out if interest rates start going up,the dollar might collapse in the panic worldwide. watch USbonds market too.

    maybe a bit of economic research can be covered on here too?

    • The little people aren't in control of the money market, the international banks are. Its going to happen if the banks want it to happen. Abe Lincoln and Jack Kennedy both tried to make the US money market free from a privatized international bank and look where it got them.

  44. News anchors present, tele-prompted, information. If you suspect an agenda; do some research, duh! Newspapers aren't nearly as entertaining as "low-cut dresses" and "shaft-grasping," are they? …didn't think so!

  45. Rusell Brand is good!
    Kinda wondering the reason 'why' he dumped Katy Perry, has anything to do with her being a 'Yes-woman' to the Illuminati industry

    • fight4rights on

      Yes, I think whenever there is a mysterious death or things just don't add up, it just makes you wonder. I'm sure a lot of these mysterious deaths have to do with information being leaked out. Information that those in high places did not want this type of information to get out. People like Edward Snow den and Michael Hastings are brave IMO. They are jeopardizing their life to help the public gain knowledge of what's going on in our world.

  46. One doesn't need to be a genius to see through the media's bullshit. And he's on the inside, he doesn't have much figuring out to do at that stage. The point of this isn't to suddenly become a fan of this man, (and a really gross one at that).

  47. I went through the comments and had yet to see anything about what i noticed about why the anchors (especially mika) were acting so strangely – other than the fact that they are idiotic news anchor puppets who can't think for themselves. Imagine being in the presence of someone like him, it is clear he radiates a certain attractive energy to people that they are just "in awe" of him & can't do anything but stare and be dumbfounded. They almost seemed to be stupified. The reason Mika was acting so strangely is pretty obvious to me.. It started with his comment about her dress being low cut and how he is a man and can't help but notice or something like that. He complimented her in a strange way , maybe not complimented but acknowledged her sexuality in a way. She was turned on by that, for obvious reasons he is a younger man etc. she was acting like a shy teenage girl around her crush. And then at the end, her subconscious said it all- she was directly staring at him while stroking a soda bottle. Pretty apparent she wants him! Haha

    • I can see his appeal, but if she tapped that, I can guarantee you she got some kind of std or something. Russell Brand looks like he gets around! Next interview she has will be about crabby patties! LolXD

  48. The way he called all of them out was awesome they didnt think he was that smart and articulate lol poor media he basically let America know how they twist stories around and focus on the wrong issues like his clothes. I dont care for him personally but that was fuckin awesome.

  49. I would respect Russell Brand if he stopped embracing Illuminati symbolism altogether. You can easily place him with your symbolic pics of the week, judging by a poster I saw for a recent movie he was in, wearing a skull and bones ring and hailing Satan. He strikes me as a hypocrite, who talks like he is awake and aware, but caves in to get paid Nevertheless, a funny clip! The lady with the blonde hair looked like a ditz! Lol

  50. Is it possible that the reason why his separation with katy perry is because he knows that she is being controlled by the illuminati and he does not want to be a part of it? Or maybe im just assuming too much.

    • Good speculation,I wonder? Notice in the clip his remark about being "alien" or something? Could that be a reference to that Katy Perry song "Alien"? Hmm…

  51. Dishcover the Riddle on

    Yeah.. I'm not sure why people here are riding his **** so much. I didn't see where he revealed anything poignant or particulary explosive here. He just took control of the interview and broke camp with the script they were expecting. He's clearly a 'Wizard' out-NLP'ing the NLP'ers. He's had training and appears to poseess the charisma on an initiate of some sort. In the end, I'm afraid he's simply another Mad Hatter on our journey through the rabbit hole..

  52. Girl From Europe on

    You know, actually he deserves a BIG thank you for at least 2 things:
    getting the name Bradley Manning on air again and adressing the situation with Edward Snowden.

    Thank you, Russell.

      • Girl From Europe on

        Ofcourse there is always something more, but that doesnt take away the gravity of the situations those men are in.
        They need to be free!!!

  53. electronlibre28 on

    Is there a version with subtitles ? Even in english I could understand but with that british accent I'm lost . Sorry I'm French πŸ˜€

    Edit : Oops sorry I didn't see that there was subtitles.

  54. Holy Moley!, I love this man. No wonder he dropped Katie Perry; she is a puppet to the music industry. Obviously, Russel Brand does not bend over and take it up the bum to make it in the industry. Thank you Russel for your purity and thank you for making those MSNBC bimboes and male bimboe look as smart as the stereotypical dumb blonde. (although that probably wasn't to difficult as I doubt they have their positions based upon intelligence).

  55. There has always been 'something' about R.Brand…is he being manipulated? possibly, but as L. Cohen says: there is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
    The beauty is that change takes but an instant, as does "waking up".
    If he's not a lifetime insider, he prob. won't crack like Spears; and Bynes et al.
    Sometimes, reading between the lines goes a long way. He's hilarious, informative, spot on and seemingly fearless…he can probably get a lot across since many people think he's a nutter anyway – these are the people to pay attention to.

  56. Brandisacreep on

    Bullshit, this unfunny, talentless, creepy and greasy douchebag is trying to pull the wool over people's eyes, why would anyone believe a former? smackhead that has a history of lying?

    Also without the media, this dimwit wouldn't be famous AT ALL!.

  57. fight thegood fight on

    He broke up with Katy,not the other way around.I wonder if he sensed the Illuminati influence and wanted nothing to do with her.

  58. katy said that he was a 'magic man' Hmmmmmm..handler?
    since he was obv drugged up (look at his eyes) or failing that demonically possessed throughout the interview, I am not sure why his words are being taken so seriously. He represents distraction in much the same way as they do and Katy does.

  59. Mika has a good job because her father is part of the 1% Zibigniew Brzezinski, Bilderberger, CFR, Trilateral commission. They want a NWO. As for Brand, the question is which witch Hollywood (Druid wand) coven does he belong to.

  60. at first, i thought of him as a bad actor.. now i clearly consider him epic <3
    great job with mentioning the real info worth spreading.

  61. I'm sorry that so many have fallen for this. Russel is just as involved in the industry and it's filth as the next "celebrity". People who are opposed to those in control just don't exist in that world. Nothing is as it seems,NOTHING, especially not the detractors and/or those who appear to challenge, or disagree with those in power.

  62. Who knew Russell Brand had a brain? The anchors clearly didn't know what to do once they realized he might go into some serious topics, so they trashed the interview! WOW! I might have buy a ticket to his show!

  63. whos that lady in blue? Mika Brzezinski, daughter of Zbigniew Brzezinski.
    that explains the attention this got.

  64. Idk those news anchors are trained to react and handle insidious behavior acting without emotion and yet they all just crumbled under minimum pressure basically as soon as Russel began to speak. It seemed rehearsed in some ways, or that somehow, he had power over them in some elusive way. His intelligent eloquence was incredibly charming but I find it hard to believe that his charm affected all 3 of the anchors so greatly, although the man did seen to have a bit of an ego struggle with Russel. Who knows? Follow your heart listen with discernment and trust no one.

    • I think he caught them off guard. The blonde anchor started out rude when she stated that she wasn't familiar with Russell Brand. How can you interview someone and have no idea what their background is? You can tell through Russell's body language that he was irritated by her. After that, he was extremely sarcastic with everyone.

  65. Whoa VG, thanks for sharing, I had not seen this and it's brilliant.
    'Thank you for your casual objectification' is my new favorite sentence. It comes in handy!

  66. All three anchors were insulting and arrogant toward Russell. What they were saying and how they were saying it was incredibly rude. He put them all in their place. They just giggled like a bunch of 3 year olds while he slyly ripped them to shreds.

  67. There are times when I can't believe that certain situations occur on T.V. I would never want to be paid to appear dumb and mindless. The interviewers were utterly unprofessional which leads me to believe that it was all done to purposely divert the promotion of Russell's tour. A tour that seems to be amusingly informative, or at least causes people to think. I've always liked Russell simply because he says what he wants. The vast majority of comedians are conscious individuals and have come upon an interesting way of relaying their message to the masses. The get by because it's assumed that most people do not take them serious, and if they start ringing to many bells, it's easy to just label them crazy.

  68. These three media puppets demonstrate wonderfully the term "talking heads". Russell Brand apparently knocked them clear off their script. I'll bet a few handlers were "handled" because of this fiasco.

  69. I think there is an extent to which everyone on here is very intelligent. But there is also an extent to which everyone on her seems extremely paranoid. Sporting certain symbols, for example wearing a skull and cross bones ring, does not automatically mean someone is "hailing Satan." Saying someone is an Illuminati puppet because they mentioned Obama does not mean that he or she is an Illuminati puppet. Sometimes people's beliefs are just that, people's beliefs. We need to realize that the symbolism is undeniable. In fact, a lot of things about this entire topic are undeniable, but let us not make mountains out of mole hills. I wore a shirt with skulls on it in 7th grade, I was not hailing Satan. Let's keep things in perspective and stay realistic about this topic instead of going overboard because there is a fine line between enlightening observations and exaggerated over-reactions.

  70. Brand has been programmed into being accepted as a Messiah figure of the NWO Luciferian religion.
    trust yourself and no one who has a platform in media, they are all shills. every single one of them are garnering souls for the luciferian agenda.

  71. crap that video was so funny. the news reporters are actually so stupid and Russell completely exposes them for being idiots. I died. They just act stupid to avoid talking abut any real issues or news, avoiding every significant and yet usually uncovered stories by any news stations.. fucking illuminati!!!!!

  72. He is fake, a fraud, a metrosexual, he is not funny and is definately not cool.
    He was married to a mind controlled pop star and was in a crappy remake movie with Helen Mirren.
    He also likes to think he is a rock star.
    And what's with all his make up?!
    Reading comments on how many people adore him gives me very little faith, especially on a great informative website like this.

  73. I loved watching him do their job better than they could!I also can't believe that them people get paid to play on facebook in tweeter world!Must be nice!!!

  74. Between Mika's shameless flirting (I wonder if Joe was watching) and the total vacuousness of the other two, it didn't take a "genius" to totally dismantle them. That being said, Mr. Brand was absolutely brilliant in dominating the discourse. Well played, Russell!

  75. Infamous Brzezinski… her dad probably set it all up.. .Zbig. The whole thing is a stage show, same with inviting Alex Jones on the View and all the BS programming. Just to show the audience that 'hey, weο»Ώ can hang with truthers!' not to mention, all the Manning Wiki NSA crap are all intentionally LEAKED to incriminate the republic and sooner orο»Ώ later all US citizens will be designated criminals by the order of UN and thrown into prison camps aka cities under the ordinace of Agenda 21 and what not. BS? Why invite some UK charles manson lookalike to tell Americans that WE ARE OK? Anyone bothered to check whether Tavistock has anything to do with this? Why even air this craap? Is this even worth mentioning in Vigilant? Am I misunderstanding you? People need to get it, the whole thing is a media blitz that are just selling another media outlet 'Messiah Complex', now who is the fukkn Messiah? some satanic handler of Katy Perry who sold her soul to Satan?? WAKE THE FUCK UP!

  76. I love this guy to pieces. He is amazing. And he is so intellectual. He totally knows how to prove someone stupid without even trying! We need more ppl like you, Russell. People w/ minds of their own, not minds controlled by the mainstream media. gotta love him

  77. no cabe duda que los medios de comunicacion son utilizados para tergiversar la verdad, apoyar agendas de poder, ridiculizar la informacion que hay en internet tachandolos de conspiranoia, talvez me quede corto…………..
    en la lucha contra el NOM o NWO.

  78. no cabe duda que los medios de comunicacion son utilizados para tergiversar la verdad, apoyar agendas de poder, ridiculizar la informacion que hay en internet tachandolos de conspiranoia, talvez me quede corto…………..


  80. Lmao. He really got under her skin, literally. She was nervous, shaken, almost became shy and sexually uncomfortable at the way he just looked at her. Fumbling for words. And. I love that he said they have no manners. He was like I'm right here!!

    Can anyone believe the London journalist kept calling him willy? How freaking disrespectful to forget his name

  81. The blonde anchor that Russell flabbergasted on MSNBC is Mika Brzezinski. She is the daughter of none other than Zbigniew Brzezinski who was the NSA advisor to Carter from '77 to '81 and later other important top government positions. He is a prominent member of the Council on Foreign Relations and author of "The Grand Chessboard". His family is of Polish nobility and he has been present at many Bilderberg meetings. He also co-founded the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller. He is one of the top dogs of the "illuminati" so we know that Mika didn't get the job on her talents and to see Russell crush her like that was AWESOME! Mr. Brzezinski has been complaining about the awakened masses and is "worried" about how this will affect global government. Take her down Russell Take her down!

  82. Russell Brand needs to be careful. The blonde anchor is Mika Brzezenski who is the daughter of Zbigniew Brzezenski. He one of the top dogs! He co-founded the Trilateral Commission with David Rockefeller. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and has attended most Bilderberg meetings. He is also of Polish nobility descent.

  83. Hmm. Without saying to much. Be aware. Russel Brand really should have been spotted for what he is (unless he is being promoted…). To whom it may concern: Be sure to watch on utube "Russel Brand Dating Illuminati Insider's daughter-take back the truth movement" by humanswin.

  84. They are bumbling because it's basically like their teleprompters went out. They KNOW that they cannot dare go along with what he's saying. Are u kidding? they'd lose their job. They KNOW they do not report real news or allow alternative opinions or anything with actual substance on air! These "news anchors" clearly weren't trained by the CIA like Andersonooper or a mass media, information handler like Piers Morgan.He They do a decent job of holding their own with interviews that addresses things that are in opposition to the standard rules. Smh.

    I agree, if he is not a direct ppuppet the powers that be have allowed and approved him to get famous. It's lke when a reco company says 'we're going to build a boy band' then finds one' or recruits singers to be in it or 'let's sign a jazzy-pop songwriting singer' and go out and find Amy Winehouse. The people who manage Justin Beiber already knew that they wanted a white, solo r&b/pop teen heartthrob. He was just "lucky" enough to be the person to fill that already existing predetermined slot. That, to me, is what Russel Brand is.

    I've noticed the powers that be don't always create the news but you best believe that they give things attention and life that will serve their agenda.

  85. Interesting GUY. Thought he was just a dick, if I was in America I would be buying tickets for that show sounds GOOD. He raised interesting topics that should be discussed on a broad spectrum like that but usual how they turn it into a Jersey Shore Bonanza where superficially and unimportant SHIT take spotlight and we let it happen.. BUT there's people like us AWARE OF THIS SHIT.

  86. I love this. Russell is never afraid to be truthful in interviews while his interviewer sits uncomfortably. The media is full of people who have become so used to putting on a face that they don't know how to respond to the real deal. Maybe that's why Katy Perry and Russell split. She was prepared to dive into the machine to remain relevant and popular and he simply could not follow.

  87. I bet they didn't have the Joe guy who's usually on because he would make him look like such a loser and they figured its ok to let the little people/women look stupid. I hate the news…I wish people weren't all so stupid.

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