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Man of Sin: End Time Discussion


08-17-2015, 10:44 PM #1
X-Maverick
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This topic is about anything pertaining to the end of the world; particularly, the Antichrist. Who is he? What is he?

While this is primarily a religious discussion, what I believe sometimes crosses into "conspiracy theory" territory, so keep that in mind.

What do you all believe pertaining to the prophecies regarding Antichrist?

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08-17-2015, 10:50 PM #2
X-Maverick
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Lol, I can't decide guys, so i'll have you decide for me. There's a ton of information on this.

Should I present my conclusion first? Or, would you rather have me gradually work up to the conclusion where you kind of see where it's going?

In other words, would you rather know the destination, and then enjoy the ride; or would you rather enjoy the ride to an unknown destination?
This post was last modified: 08-17-2015, 10:50 PM by X-Maverick.

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08-17-2015, 11:03 PM #3
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(08-17-2015, 10:50 PM)X-Maverick Wrote:  Lol, I can't decide guys, so i'll have you decide for me. There's a ton of information on this.

Should I present my conclusion first? Or, would you rather have me gradually work up to the conclusion where you kind of see where it's going?

In other words, would you rather know the destination, and then enjoy the ride; or would you rather enjoy the ride to an unknown destination?

I think you need to know the destination to know if the ride is worth the hassle but that's just me, hate traveling, soon as they invent a teleporter I will be ready to travel anywhere lol
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08-18-2015, 03:14 AM #4
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I believe he will be a man, a bad man (not to confuse with batman)

He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits in God’s sanctuary, publicizing that he himself is God.

His power shall be great—but not by his own power; and he shall cause fearful destruction and shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people who are the saints.

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.2 And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation

He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple, until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.

And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done.

To much "he" not to be one person, as for who he is i will leave my theories to myself Blush

Truth is precious it's guarded by God
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08-18-2015, 03:23 AM #5
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I believe he will be a hybrid.  Satan counters God in everything so I dont believe the AC will be an institution or place.  He will be a counterfeit to the messiah Jesus Christ.

Prov 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.

08-18-2015, 03:55 AM #6
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Vytas and Maverick, don't leave us hanging!

Or can you (Vytas) please pm me your mystery? That was a cruel way to end a post! Like one of those movies you watch and then its over and you're like "wtf?! What happens next?! Oh this is bs!" My TV is covered in popcorn butter from such disappointment. (Jk!)
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08-18-2015, 05:03 AM #7
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Literally just posted this in that September thread, definitely relevant here:

It's way too early for anyone to call themselves the 'Antichrist'

If there is one, they aren't human.

Or maybe there is no Antichrist, it's all fear mongering and when someone flies down from a government built ship dressed as a giant/alien we'll all suck it up and fall for the one world religion.

The possibilities are endless, literally.



What's everyone else's thoughts?

Edit: OP, yes, please present your conclusion.
This post was last modified: 08-18-2015, 05:04 AM by Goku.
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08-18-2015, 09:29 AM #8
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Okay, a couple of you both said I should present my conclusion first, so that's what i'll do.

First, what does Revelation say about this entity?

Quote:Revelation 13:1-5

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Now, at first glance, it seems very ambiguous. Still, it is decipherable.

This Beast that you read about is...


[Image: rome-normal.jpg]


Yes, Rome is the first Beast of Revelation.


How do I know? Well, in prophecy, a Beast always symbolizes a kingdom. The prior kingdoms were pictured as beasts as well. You can see a great example of this in the book of Daniel. This book is needed to decipher some of the symbols in Revelation. Take special note of the beasts descriptions.


The color coded text underneath the scriptures gives you the explanation of what kingdoms they are.


Quote:Daniel 7:1-7

In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

The first of these beasts evidently intends the Babylonian monarchy, and is described as a lion with eagles' wings." --Cottage Bible.

Speaking of Babylon... Habakkuk 1:8
 Their horses also are swifter than the leopards, and are more fierce than the evening wolves: and their horsemen shall spread themselves, and their horsemen shall come from far; they shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat.


And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

"This was the Medo-Persian empire, represented here under the symbol of the bear. . . . The Medes and Persians are compared to a bear on account of their cruelty and thirst after blood, a bear being the most voracious and cruel animal. The bear is termed by Aristotle an all-devouring animal; and the Medo-Persians are known to have been great robbers and spoilers.

"As in the great image of chapter 2, so in this series of symbols, a marked deterioration will be noticed as we descend from one kingdom to another. The breast and arms of silver were inferior to the head of gold. The bear was inferior to the lion. Medo-Persia fell short of Babylon in wealth and magnificence, and the brilliancy of its career. . . . The three ribs perhaps signify the three provinces of Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt, which were especially ground down and oppressed by this power." --Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, pages 117, 118.


Why was he “raised up” on one side? Another historic fact is, between the two, the Persians were actually much stronger than the Medes.

After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

This bear having disappeared, the prophet saw an extraordinary "leopard" rise up in its stead. This was the emblem of the Grecian, or Macedonian empire, which for the time was the most renowned in the world." --Scott, on Daniel 7:6.

"Two wings, the number the lion had, were not sufficient. It [the leopard] must have four; and this must denote unparalleled swiftness of movement, which we find to be historically true of the Grecian kingdom. The conquests of Grecia under Alexander have no parallel in historic annals for suddenness and rapidity." --Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, page 118.


"Alexander, in less than eight years, marched his army upwards of seventeen hundred leagues [or more than fifty-one hundred miles], without including his return to Babylon." --Rollin's Ancient History, b. 15, sec. 2.


He (Alexander) had great charisma and force of personality, characteristics, which made him a great leader. This is further emphasised by the inability of any of his generals to unite the Macedonians and retain the Empire after his death – only Alexander had the personality to do so. - Green, Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Age, pp. 24–26.

"'The beast had also four heads. The Grecian empire maintained its unity but little longer than the lifetime of Alexander. Within fifteen years after his brilliant career ended in a drunken debauch [323 B.C.], the empire was divided among his four leading generals. Cassander had Macedon and Greece in the west; Lysimachus (LYSIMAKUS) had Thrace and the parts of Asia on the Hellespont and Bosporus in the north; Ptolemy (TOLEMY) received Egypt, Lydia, Arabia, Palestine, and Coele-Syria in the south; and Seleucus (SELUCUS)
had Syria and all the rest of Alexander's dominions in the east. These divisions were denoted by the four heads of the leopard." --Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, page 119. See also Cottage Bible notes on this prophecy.

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

A fourth beast. -- "The Roman empire, which destroyed the Grecian empire, and became mistriss of the world." --Bagster, in Cottage Bible.

"The fourth kingdom, symbolized by the fourth beast, is accurately represented by the Roman power." --Barnes, on Dan. 7, page 321.

"This 'fourth beast' evidently accords with the legs and feet of iron, which were seen by Nebuchadnezzar in his visionary image, and which were at length divided into ten toes. . . . This was doubtless an emblem of the Roman state." --Scott, on Dan. 7:7

"This is allowed on all hands, to be the Roman empire. It was dreadful, terrible, and exceeding strong; . . . and became in effect, what the Roman writers delight to call it, the empire of the whole world." --A. Clarke on Dan. 7.

This beast is said to have ten horns...

Daniel 7:8, "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."

the opposition of the Arian powers to the doctrines of the Catholics, especially to that of the Trinity. These opposing powers were rooted up, the Heruli in 493, the Vandals in 534, and the Qstrogoths in 538.” See "Student's Gibbon," pp. 309-319.

"It is a remarkable fact, that the popes to this day wear a triple crown,-- a fact that exists in regard to no other monarchs. . . The papacy [is] well represented by the 'little horn'. . . In fact, this one power absorbed into itself three of these sovereignties." -Barnes's Notes on Daniel, page 327.

"This evidently points out the papal supremacy, in every respect diverse from the former, which, from small beginnings, thrust itself up among the ten kingdoms, till at length is successively eradicated three of them." --Bagster, in Cottage Bible.

If you notice, the descriptions line up with a prior scripture you've already read.

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."


As the woman is needed to explain this further, we'll need to ascertain her identity as well. An angel will describe the symbolism of the woman to you...in the next post. Tongue
This post was last modified: 08-18-2015, 09:43 AM by X-Maverick.

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08-18-2015, 10:43 AM #9
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Before we go into the identity of the woman who sits on the Beast, we need to address the abomination of desolation; because a lot of people have it wrong.

Quote:Daniel 9:26-27, "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."


This is NOT speaking of the "Antichrist." It is all about Jesus Christ. The word Messiah is not used for anyone but Jesus. The scripture says He will be cut off, but not for Himself. He died for us, is what it means. He didn't die for Himself.

In the midst of this covenant, the sacrifices ceased. The Old Testament traditions are no more.

What does desolation mean? Devastation, ruin; depopulation, dreariness, barenness.

In A.D.66 when Cestius came against the city, but unaccountably withdrew, the Christians discerned in this the sign foretold by Christ, and fled while 1,100,000 Jews are said to have been killed in the terrible siege in A.D. 70. -Eusebius, Church History, book 3, chap. 5

This event annihilated Israel off the map. The Romans tore it apart, brick by brick; as Jesus foretold in the Gospels. It is said they took the bricks apart as they used a lot of fire to destroy the city. The temple and many other buildings had a lot of gold throughout, which melted between the cracks. And so they took the buildings apart to find every speck of gold.

This was the abomination of desolation.

Now that that's sorted out, let's continue.

Quote:Revelation 17:1-7,9,15


And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:


With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.


So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:


And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.


And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


This woman that you're reading about here, is none other than...


İmage


The woman that rides the Beast, is Vatican City. A forgotten nickname for this city is 'The City on Seven Hills'.

A woman always symbolizes a church. Through proper reading of the symbols and simple comparison, you can find out irrefutably that this woman is, in fact, the Church of Rome.

Now, let's get into the great deal of information proving this fact.


"Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of the barbarous hordes, the Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection, and asked him to rule them; and thus, . . . commenced the temporal sovereignty of the popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the vicar of Christ took up the scepter to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages."--American Catholic Quarterly Review, April, 1911.

"Out of the ruins of political Rome, arose the great moral Empire in the 'giant form' of the Roman Church."--A.C. Flick, The Rise of the Mediaeval Church, 1909, p. 150.  "Under the Roman Empire the popes had no temporal powers. But when the Roman Empire had disintegrated and its place had been taken by a number of rude, barbarous kingdoms, the Roman Catholic church not only became independent of the states in religious affairs, but dominated secular affairs as well. At times, under such rulers as Charlemagne (768-814), Otto the Great (936-973), and Henry III (1039-1056), the civil power controlled the church to some extent; but in general, under the weak political system of feudalism, the well-organized, unified, and centralized church, with the pope at its head, was not only independent in ecclesiastical affairs but also controlled civil affairs"--Carl Conrad Eckhardt, The Papacy and World-Affairs, The University of Chicago Press, 1937, P. 1.
Pope Pius IX, in his "Discorsi" (I., p. 253), said:  "The Caesar who now addresses you, and to whom alone are obedience and fidelity due."

(Speaking of the time, about 500 A.D., when the Roman Empire was crumbling to pieces) "No, the [Catholic] Church will not descend into the tomb. It will survive the Empire . . . At length a second empire will arise, and of this empire the Pope will be the master--more then this, he will be the master of Europe. He will dictate his orders to kings who will obey them"--Andrea Lagarde, The Latin Church in the Middle Ages, 1915, p. vi.

The beast speaks great things, does it not?

"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (...) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.” -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29

“And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priest and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse to give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it.” -Liguori, «Duties and Dignities of the Priest», p.27


So now God has to obey the priest? This is only two of many examples.


As for the 42 months of persecution...well, those aren't literal months. In prophecy, a day is as a year. You really have a total of 1260 total years.


How do we know this? I don't feel like typing out all that math, so i'll have another source explain it.


Quote:
Source - remnantofgod.org


Let's first look into other areas of prophecy to try and define this. Revelation 13:5 speaks of this time as forty two months. It says, "...and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

The forty two months of Rev 13:5 and the "time, and time and dividing a time" of Daniel 7:25 equal the same thing. 42 months. Fact is, 42 months actually equals "3 1/2 years." But does this make sense with Daniel? A "time (one year) and times (two years) and the dividing of time, (half a year ) actually equals three and a half years, or forty two months (12+24 + 6 = 42 months)

So, yes, it appears this does make sense in Daniel. Plus, Revelation 12:6 confirms this as authentic when it says that the church of Jesus would hide in the wilderness for exactly 1260 days during this time the little horn goes about killing Christians. Fact is, 42 months, or 3 and a half years actually equals 1260 days.

Still, some will say that 42 months does NOT equal 1260 days because all our months do not equal 30 days each today. And if you multiply 365 days for a year by 3.5, you do NOT get 1260. You will get, 1277.5 instead. The fact here is that a month in the Bible is based upon lunar reckoning. (that is, 1 month = 29.56 days, rounded to 30 days.)


In fact, most Orthodox Jews to this day still use this method a time when calculating their feast days or other events. To understand, and further verify the forty and two months, or the time, and time and diving a time that this little horn will reign, we must first find the method of time the Bible declares for prophecy. God says in Ezekiel 4:6 "I have appointed thee each day for a year" And we also find the Bible acknowledges a month to be 30 days long.

Because in, Genesis 7:11 we see the rain started on the 1[b]7 day of the 2nd month [/b]and in Genesis 8:3,4 we find the water receded at the end of 150 days. Then it says the ark rested on the 17th day of the 7th month. That's exactly 5 months to the day. If we divide the 150 days by the 5 months you will get 30 days per month. Biblical jurisprudence confirms, a month = 30 days! So 42 months multiplied by 30 equals 1260. And according to Ezekiel 4:6, that's 1260 years that the little horn, or Papal Rome would reign.


This time of persecution started when...

"Vigilius...ascended the papal chair (538 A.D.) under the military protection of Belisarius." History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 327


Quote:
As the ten kingdoms of Rome were falling apart, there was an emperor Justinian who was worried about his crumbling empire. He has a General Bellsarius under his thumb who he devises a plan with during the wars that resulted in the unrest of Rome's fall. They decided that if they can get into the city of Rome they will banish the bishop of Rome so as to allow for a takeover that would allow the new system of "ROMAN Catholicism" to be set up. They needed this system because they felt they had no more political power to control the people. So they devised a plan that would give them Religious as well as political strength.

One fateful day while Bellsarius is fighting, the bishop of Rome proclaims that he will not allow any fighting within his city. This Bishop loves his people and proceeds to close the gates and refuses to have anything to do with the war just outside the city. The fighting on this day is particularly strenuous however. The Goths had pushed back Bellsarius and his fighters all the way to the walls of what was left of the city of Rome. It looked hopeless. It looked as if Bellsarius was going to be wiped out completely. So, Bellsarius scurried off a note to his superior Justinian, saying, "save us!" Justinian's wife is a Christian who happens to be a friend of the bishop of Rome. Justinian pleads with his wife to ask the bishop of Rome to open the gates of the city so that Bellsarius and his men can enter inside so as not to be wiped out by the Goth's. Out of respect for her bishop, Salverius of Rome opens the gates of the city to allow Bellsarius and his army into the city to spare their lives.

Justinian and Bellsarius however had already agreed that once inside the city they would banish the bishop of Rome. So once inside they  did indeed follow through on their plans. They banished the bishop and put their own man Vigilius who was not a Christian on the seat of bishop and proclaimed him Pope that very day. And there you have it, just as this prophecy of Revelation 13:4 predicted. In the year 538 AD the official beginning of the Roman Catholic church and state conglomeration prophetically began. -Generalized Information taken from Hope Beyond 2000 Video series "Rise of the little horn of Daniel 7” -Kenneth Cox

So, did the persecution end exactly 1260 years later?


"In 1798 General Berthier made his entrance into Rome, abolished the papal government, and established a secular one." -Encyclopedia Britannica 1941 edition

During this time of persecution, the most terrible tortures known to man were devised and used extensively by this Church. If you want me to detail some of that gruesome past, just let me know.

By the way, when Napoleon helped to abolish the Papal government, this was the deadly wound by a sword. Sword in prophecy always symbolizes an army. I will detail when the wound was healed in the next post.

I'll end this post with evidence for this...

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The Pope has many titles, but did you know this fun fact? A few titles are in Latin (as well as a few other languages), as well as being in Roman Numerals. Everyone knows that Roman Numerals aren't just letters, but numbers as well. Well, let's add some up.

VICARIVS FILII DEI (Vicar of the Son of God)

V = 5
I = 1
C = 100
A = 0
R = 0
I = 1
V = 5
S = 0

F = 0
I = 1
L = 50
I = 1
I =1

D = 500
E = 0
I = 1

That is his primary title, it adds up to 666.

Let's do a couple more...

This next one is a Greek title

Note: The numeric equivalents of Greek letters can be found in the Encyclopedia Brittanica under "Languages of the World", Table 8.

ITALIKA EKKLESIA (Italian Church)

I = 10
T = 300
A = 1
L = 30
I = 10
K = 20
A = 1

E = 5
K = 20
K = 20
L = 30
E = 8
S = 200
I = 10
A = 1

Wow, 666 again. Last one...

REX LATINVS SACERDOS (King of the Roman Priests)

R = 0
E = 0
X = 10

L = 50
A = 0
T = 0
I = 1
N = 0
V = 5
S = 0

S = 0
A = 0
C = 100
E = 0
R = 0
D = 500
O = 0
S = 0

Again, it adds up to 666. There are quite a few more than that which add up to the same exact number.
This post was last modified: 08-18-2015, 11:26 AM by X-Maverick.

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  • Thy Unveiling

08-18-2015, 12:34 PM #10
Todd
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I have spent much time study Eschatology.  I have read all kinds of theories and teachings and while I have ruled out the majority of them as not lining up with Scripture, I don't think anybody really knows what is going to happen.

I do wholeheartedly agree with Maverick that the Abomination of Desolation was fulfilled and completed by Christ and the destruction of the temple in 70AD. 

Prophecy is always better understood and recognized after fulfillment.  Rarely is it correctly understood and explained before.  So while it is important to study and know the prophecies so we know what to look out for, I don't think trying to predict what will happen in the Geo-political realm is of much use. 

That being said, I do find it entertaining to read different theories, as long as they are presented as that, and not considered predictions or dogma.

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did
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