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Nondenominational Christians: Some questions for you
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08-06-2015, 10:21 PM #1
khadeejah
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Peace Christians -

I've been seeing a lot of Christian responses in different threads that I would like to follow up on, however it seems that many of the posts get lost in the threads so I wanted to compile your comments and the questions in this one thread.

Please know that the only reason I'm asking these questions is because I want to know how you arrive to your conclusions, your truths,  and understandings.  If you don't have an answer or don't know the answer, that's okay with me.  I'm not here to insult your beliefs and I hope, if you respond to the questions -  you wouldn't bash my faith in the process. I sincerely want to know why you believe what you believe and what evidences you use to support your beliefs.  (unlike the agnostics, atheists, new-agers, etc...  scripture counts as evidence in my book)

Here are your comments and my questions regarding them.  I didn't include the names of original posters  - anyone could reply if they have an answer .   I appreciate your thoughtful replies and I ask Almighty God to guide us all to what will lead us to His Kingdom in Heaven.

Quote:Also because I was taught and "conditioned" by the corporate religious institutions to believe doctrines that oppose scripture, the more I study and read the OT and NT the more I am seeing how much of what I taught is not correct
  Which doctrines of the church oppose scripture?

Quote: Yes I am.  There are certain things I believe that I have studied and prayed about thoroughly, that I'm confident are truth and there are other things I have yet to fully study and pray about, that I leave open the possibility that God could correct and adjust.
What are the truths that you know about God and what are your proofs for those truths? 

Quote:I was born into a Catholic family but, since I do not identify myself with the man-made institutions and dogmas surrounding religious denominations, I today simply consider myself as “Christian”.
Which dogmas oppose the Christianity that you now practice?


Quote:Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen
Do Christians apply this verse to God the Father only?  (I ask because Jesus was seen and the Holy Spirit was seen as tongues of Fire at Pentecost).


Quote:Isaiah 66 speaks of the Tribulation, when the law is in effect again.  As for whether or not I, as a Christian, can eat pork today, please read the New Testament to see how Levitical laws affect me.
Could you tell me what is the Tribulation and what Law will be in effect again?  I don't recall ever hearing about a law coming back into effect.

If I see that questions from other threads were not responded to, I will add them to this thread, God willing.



08-07-2015, 12:20 AM #2
Axiom
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In your opinion you were taught "dogma" that contradicts the New Testament but the death and resurrection of Christ is central to Christian belief and you'd be lying if you said the New Testament doesn't explicitly teach this doctrine. Then there are those who explicitly deny the crucifixion and implicitly deny the resurrection, I.e. this central doctrine of Chrisianity.

08-07-2015, 01:51 AM #3
khadeejah
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(08-07-2015, 12:20 AM)Axiom Wrote:  In your opinion you were taught "dogma" that contradicts the New Testament but the death and resurrection of Christ is central to Christian belief and you'd be lying if you said the New Testament doesn't explicitly teach this doctrine. Then there are those who explicitly deny the crucifixion and implicitly deny the resurrection, I.e. this central doctrine of Chrisianity.

Thank you for your participation.  I believe you are referring to one of the comments above , yes?  Your comment actually raises another question.

Quote:the death and resurrection of Christ is central to Christian belief and you'd be lying if you said the New Testament doesn't explicitly teach this doctrine.

Is there anything in the  New Testament from the mouth of Jesus himself that explicitly teaches the doctrine of his death and resurrection?   It's the cornerstone of the Cristian faith - Didn't Paul say: And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins?

But what about Jesus himself? Did he say anything clearly about this Christian faith foundation? Also, I read this verse about Jesus' death:

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

 And I wanted to ask is the "ghost" that Jesus gave up the third part of the trinity or a different ghost?
This post was last modified: 08-07-2015, 02:16 AM by khadeejah.



08-07-2015, 02:49 AM #4
anne
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I would like to call myself non-denominational because some of my views are different from the mainstream sects of Christianity.For eg Just like CS Lewis,I don't believe in eternal hell and my viws about reincarnation are vague because the Bible doesn't exactly deny it.
Khadeejah,were you a Christian before?

08-07-2015, 03:26 AM #5
X-Maverick
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(08-07-2015, 12:20 AM)Axiom Wrote:  In your opinion you were taught "dogma" that contradicts the New Testament but the death and resurrection of Christ is central to Christian belief and you'd be lying if you said the New Testament doesn't explicitly teach this doctrine. Then there are those who explicitly deny the crucifixion and implicitly deny the resurrection, I.e. this central doctrine of Chrisianity.

Do some Christians deny this?

Formerly JudgementEden on the old VC Forums.

08-07-2015, 04:29 AM #6
anne
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Yes,they do exist.I read somewher that in some Dutch churches atheist/agnostic pastors are being appointed and they believe that Jesus was a great teacher,nothing wlse.They call themselves "Christians" too.Same goes for a lot of Dutch population who goes to these churches.

08-07-2015, 09:33 AM #7
Axiom
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(08-07-2015, 03:26 AM)X-Maverick Wrote:  Do some Christians deny this?
Probably but call it a syntax error in this case because I was not referring to Christians but the "spirits" which make that assertion, such as the spirit that spoke to Muhammad and the likes of this "Seth" that New Agers and occultists venerate.
Quote:Is there anything in the  New Testament from the mouth of Jesus himself that explicitly teaches the doctrine of his death and Resurrection?   It's the cornerstone of the Cristian faith - Didn't Paul say: And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins?

But what about Jesus himself? Did he say anything clearly about this Christian faith foundation?
That's a strange request to make. If you've read the New Testament then you should know the answer to this question. Or do you think Christ should have said something to the effect of "I'm being crucified" when he was crucified or "I've resurrected" when he was resurrected?

"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and will hand him over to the Gentiles to mock, to scourge, and to crucify; and the third day he will be raised up."
(Mat. 20:18-19).

You believe that the people thought they crucified Christ but it was actually a phantom that appeared like him but the real Christ was invisibly taken up to heaven by Allah. So I would ask then, where are the words from his own mouth about the "truth" of this doctrine?
Quote:Also, I read this verse about Jesus' death:

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

And I wanted to ask is the "ghost" that Jesus gave up the third part of the trinity or a different ghost?
It was the Spirit of Christ! He tells us in the Gospel of John, "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."  Christ's spirit as it had eternally existed "preached to the spirits in prison" (1 Pet. 3:19) while his flesh lay in the tomb. At his glorious Resurrection his spirit assumed a renewed and incorruptible body, the New Adam after the old Adam gave up his pure and immortal flesh up to death and corruption. This is the hope we have to look forward to, as the Apostle says, "the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52)

Now, I'm not a nondemoninational Christian and your threads seem like they are generally aimed at politicking about Christian vs. Islamic beliefs and practices under varied headings so I'll go ahead and eject myself from this thread.
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08-07-2015, 09:54 AM #8
Todd
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(08-06-2015, 10:21 PM)khadeejah Wrote:  
Quote:Also because I was taught and "conditioned" by the corporate religious institutions to believe doctrines that oppose scripture, the more I study and read the OT and NT the more I am seeing how much of what I taught is not correct
  Which doctrines of the church oppose scripture?

This quote was me, so I will respond.  

Some of the doctrines of the institutional Church that I have rejected based on scripture.

1.  Doctrine that unbelievers will suffer eternal torment in hell.
2.  Doctrine that believers will spend eternity in heaven.
3.  Belief that those who have already died in Christ are in heaven and can observe what we are doing right now.
4.  Doctrine of tithing (giving 10% of your income to the institutional church)
5.  Any doctrine or belief that creates a distinction between clergy/priests and lay persons.
6. Doctrine that Christians will be taken form the earth before or half way through some mythical 7-year end time tribulation.
7.  Doctrine that Christian's should support the modern day political state of Israel and rejoice in efforts to rebuild a jewish temple.

These are the main ones.
This post was last modified: 08-07-2015, 09:55 AM by Todd.

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did

08-07-2015, 12:10 PM #9
khadeejah
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(08-07-2015, 02:49 AM)anne Wrote:  I would like to call myself non-denominational because some of my views are different from the mainstream sects of Christianity.For eg Just like CS Lewis,I don't believe in eternal hell and my viws about reincarnation are vague because the Bible doesn't exactly deny it.
Khadeejah,were you a Christian before?

Thanks for your input Anne.  I read in another thread that you  converted to Christianity from Hinduism and that you are 18 years old.  Most 18 year olds I know don't give much thought to religion, so it's nice to hear from someone who does.

 I ask God to guide you on your quest for truth and throughout your life, Ameen.
This post was last modified: 07-16-2016, 07:28 PM by khadeejah.


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08-07-2015, 02:55 PM #10
khadeejah
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(08-07-2015, 09:33 AM)Axiom Wrote:  Probably but call it a syntax error in this case because I was not referring to Christians but the "spirits" which make that assertion, such as the spirit that spoke to Muhammad and the likes of this "Seth" that New Agers and occultists venerate.

 
Why is it so hard for you to refrain from slipping in derogatory remarks about my prophet and my faith?  The questions are about Christian doctrines and beliefs.  But just to clarify, the Spirit that brought the revelation from God to Muhammad is the same one that brought revelation to Moses and the prophets; the angel Gabriel (Ruh al-Qudus -   the Holy Spirit.)  Even his wife's cousin Waraqa ibn Nawfal who had converted to Christianity from the paganism of his people told Muhammad: "That is the same angel whom Allah sent to the Prophet Moses. Should I live till you receive the Divine Message, I will support you strongly."
 
Quote:That's a strange request to make. If you've read the New Testament then you should know the answer to this question. Or do you think Christ should have said something to the effect of "I'm being crucified" when he was crucified or "I've resurrected" when he was resurrected?

No, not "I'm being crucified" when he was crucified or "I've resurrected" when he was resurrected, but something from his words that says he will have to be put to death for all of our sins. 
 
Quote:"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and will hand him over to the Gentiles to mock, to scourge, and to crucify; and the third day he will be raised up." (Mat. 20:18-19).

Thank you for the verse but it doesn't say that he will have to die as an atonement for our sins.

Quote:You believe that the people thought they crucified Christ but it was actually a phantom that appeared like him but the real Christ was invisibly taken up to heaven by Allah. So I would ask then, where are the words from his own mouth about the "truth" of this doctrine?
 

May I ask where you get your information about Islam?  I've never heard that it "was actually a phantom,”  and whether or not Jesus was crucified is not a doctrine of my faith.  Muslims only need to believe that Jesus was a mighty Messenger of God who brought the same Message that all of God's Prophets brought:  "God is my Lord and your Lord so worship Him Only and turn away from false gods." If I don't believe that then I am not a Muslim.  Muslims believe that every word of the Quran is from Almighty God and we do not deny any of it.  God says in the Quran: And [for] their saying (meaning the Jews), "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. (Quran 4:157)   That's all I need to know.  This verse actually supports a verse in your scripture which says that Jesus prayed and cried to God to be saved from death and God answered him.  (Hebrews 5:7)
 
Quote:It was the Spirit of Christ! He tells us in the Gospel of John, "God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."  Christ's spirit as it had eternally existed "preached to the spirits in prison" (1 Pet. 3:19) while his flesh lay in the tomb. At his glorious Resurrection his spirit assumed a renewed and incorruptible body, the New Adam after the old Adam gave up his pure and immortal flesh up to death and corruption. This is the hope we have to look forward to, as the Apostle says, "the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed." (1 Cor. 15:52)
 

Okay so it wasn't the Holy Spirit part of the trinity then but the spirit that was part of Jesus, the son of man (as he often referred to himself)  just like we all have a spirit right?    What is this about new Adam and old Adam?  I haven't heard it before.  Does Christianity teach that Jesus was also Adam?  I agree that the trumpet will be sounded - and all of us will be brought back to life for eternity, body and soul.
This post was last modified: 08-07-2015, 02:58 PM by khadeejah.