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Is abortion morally acceptable with rape or incest?


07-31-2015, 01:20 PM #1
All Creation
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In another thread, I have stated my opposition to abortion for the sake of convenience, when the mother's life is not in danger, and that I regard that as murder (which is the overwhelming majority of abortions carried out today). However, a major gray area occurs in the case of rape or incest. Rape is a horrible crime, and can traumatize and scar the victim for life, and on the one hand, the victim may not want to carry around a reminder of that horrendous crime, but at the same time, it is not the baby's fault that he or she was conceived in such a horrific manner; you would be punishing the baby for the actions of another sick individual.

This is in the religions section because I would particularly like to see the perspective of Christians and Muslims (those of the Abrahamic faiths), though I am leaving it open to others as well, since there are people of other faiths (or no faith at all) who are also opposed to abortion.

I had also posed this question over at DTV; you can read the commentary here:
http://www.disclose.tv/forum/is-abortion...03005.html

07-31-2015, 02:04 PM #2
khadeejah
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Thanks for starting this topic here.   I had posted the Islamic Fiqh (Jurisprudence) position in that thread and also below.   As for the pregnancy that occurred due to rape or incest,  that would fall under the rulings below with consideration of the individual woman;  does the harm of it outweigh the good of it for her physically, psychologically, morally? - then the earliest abortion would be permitted, Allaah knows best.    Another detailed ruling on pregnancy by rape is found HERE 

Quote:Regarding the Islamic position on abortion, the Council of Senior Scholars issued the following statement:
  • 1 – It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy at any stage unless there is a legitimate reason, and within very precise limits. 

  • 2 – If the pregnancy is in the first stage, which is a period of forty days, and aborting it serves a legitimate purpose or will ward off harm, then it is permissible to abort it. But aborting it at this stage for fear of the difficulty of raising children or of being unable to bear the costs of maintaining and educating them, or for fear for their future or because the couple feel that they have enough children – this is not permissible.

  • 3 – It is not permissible to abort a pregnancy when it is an ‘alaqah or mudghah (which are the second and third periods of forty days each) until a trustworthy medical committee has decided that continuing the pregnancy poses a threat to the mother’s wellbeing, in that there is the fear that she will die if the pregnancy continues. It is permissible to abort it once all means of warding off that danger have been exhausted.

  • 4 – After the third stage, and after four months have passed, it is not permissible to abort the pregnancy unless a group of trustworthy medical specialists decide that keeping the foetus in his mother’s womb will cause her death, and that should only be done after all means of keeping the foetus alive have been exhausted. A concession is made allowing abortion in this case so as to ward off the greater of two evils and to serve the greater of two interests.

They derived this ruling based on the Qur'an and Sunnah.


The reason for 40 days being the window that it is permissible if it serves a legitimate purpose or will ward off harm:

from the Qur'aan:

And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.* Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging.* Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot (leech-like), and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators.  (The Believers 23: 12-14)

And from the Sunnah:

The Prophet Muhammad, (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam), has informed us in a hadeeth that: In every one of you, all components of your creation are gathered together in your mothers’  womb by 40 days. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim and Al-Bukhaari).

In another Hadeeth, Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) said:  When forty-two nights have passed over the drop (nutfah), Allah sends an angel to it, who shapes it and makes its ears, eyes, skin, flesh and bones. Then he says, "O Lord, is it male  or  female?" and your Lord decides what he wishes. (Narrated in Saheeh Muslim).


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07-31-2015, 02:12 PM #3
Greenbob
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I find the attitude to abortion, like most of religuous doctrine, to be contradictory, if it is murder, then their cannot be any condoning of it, whether it is incest or rape.

For example the Catholic church is against abortion full stop, even with the occurance of rape or incest. However, some of their followers seem to think it is acceptable to bomb clinics and kill staff.

Why do we want to follow religuous organisations so blindly when they are so contradictory and loose with the truth on so many fronts
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07-31-2015, 02:15 PM #4
Kung Fu
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I think abortion is murder. Now tell me what's so contradictory about that?

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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07-31-2015, 02:21 PM #5
Greenbob
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Do you agree with everyone else's opinion, I bet the answer to that is ............NO

An you expect people to agree with you view on abortion, don't you................YES

and that is contradictory?

07-31-2015, 02:27 PM #6
Hex
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You have 'moral' in the title...

in a VC forum...

in the religions section...

...

İmage

"We check and repress the divinity that stirs within us, to fall down and worship the divinity that is dead without us."
--  Henry David Thoreau, 1851

My Site: www.intelligentinfinity.net

İmage
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07-31-2015, 02:32 PM #7
Kung Fu
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(07-31-2015, 02:21 PM)Greenbob Wrote:  Do you agree with everyone else's opinion, I bet the answer to that is ............NO

An you expect people to agree with you view on abortion, don't you................YES

and that is contradictory?

Why are you assuming so much? I can assume contradictions out of thin air as well. Nice try though.

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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07-31-2015, 02:33 PM #8
Kung Fu
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(07-31-2015, 02:27 PM)Hex Wrote:  You have 'moral' in the title...

in a VC forum...

in the religions section...

...

İmage

You should of used this GIF

İmage

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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07-31-2015, 02:36 PM #9
Greenbob
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(07-31-2015, 02:32 PM)Kung Fu Wrote:  
(07-31-2015, 02:21 PM)Greenbob Wrote:  Do you agree with everyone else's opinion, I bet the answer to that is ............NO

An you expect people to agree with you view on abortion, don't you................YES

and that is contradictory?

Why are you assuming so much? I can assume contradictions out of thin air as well. Nice try though.

Well you better go back and change a large percentage of your posts on the board as you seem to disagree with so many others

07-31-2015, 02:45 PM #10
Emerald
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(07-31-2015, 02:15 PM)Kung Fu Wrote:  I think abortion is murder. Now tell me what's so contradictory about that?

The same tired old record. Zero logic, zero arguments, massive religious retardation. Congratulate urself.

People who surrender their former religious beliefs have got to be some of the smartest and bravest people in the world because they set out to find truth even while under the threat of "eternal damnations". George Carlin
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