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Anyone here into the Enneagram?


07-26-2015, 12:48 AM #1
umphreak
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Marshall
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Hey Vigilant Folks,

Is anybody here into the Enneagram of personality?  Since this site deals with a lot of symbolism, I thought some of you might be.  I am a student of the Riso-Hudson school of Enneagram thought.  I find them to be the most accurate by far of all Enneagram authors, and have the best insights into using the Enneagram for personal growth.

If so, do you know your type and wing?  I'm a 4w5 (Four with a Five wing).  Bonus if you know your Instinctual Variant or Instinctual Stack (I'm Sexual first, Self-Preservation second, Social last).

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, go here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/

If you know what the Enneagram is but need help figuring out your type, go here: https://enneagraminstitute.global.ssl.fa...pdf?13dd39  (and be sure not to look at the second page before you take the test on the first page, or you might get into some wishful thinking that messes up the results)

İmage
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07-26-2015, 03:27 AM #2
Talijana
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Marshall
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Into it? Insofar as I find any personality test to be limited. People answer questions about themselves-thats always full of bias, dissonance and depending on the person playing up traits or playing them down. We are opaque to ourselves. Having said that 

I am a 5w4 

Myer-Briggs INTJ

07-26-2015, 10:08 AM #3
umphreak
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Marshall
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Certainly the usefulness of any personality system to a particular individual is limited to that individual's ability to be objective about themselves.  One thing I like about the Enneagram in comparison to other systems is that it allows one to account for relative level of psychological health, which is directly related to the ability to be objective about one's own behavior.  And it shows what direction one will move in when they are becoming more integrated or less integrated.  The entire premise behind the Riso-Hudson philosophy is that one must cultivate objectivity if personal growth is the goal.  

But you're right that the average person who encounters the Enneagram is subject to a lot of wishful thinking!  That's part of the reason why I posted Quest Test instead of the more detailed Rheti Sampler, because I've found the Quest to be way more accurate.  It is so deceptively simple, yet the paragraphs are worded so well that the correct one for the individual is nearly guaranteed to resonate deeper and be more appealing.  But even that could fail to work for someone who is extremely lacking in self-awareness.  Years ago I went to Part 1 of the Enneagram Teacher Training, and even a few of the Enneagram students there had mistyped themselves!  Fortunately Riso and Hudson were such excellent teachers and were able to capture the essence and feeling of each type so well that these students quickly realized their mistakes.
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07-26-2015, 03:38 PM #4
Smooch
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I am not familiar with Enneagram but because I once worked for a company in Dallas who facilitated "personality tests" for high end companies and clients, I've seen just about every type of test go across my test.  Heck, I was even tested just to be their Secretary.  I got the job because of my minor in Psychology (never finished) and a run through Myers-Briggs.  I found the entire thing Elitist because it was used to weed out inferior apples.

However, as to the actual concept itself, I find such things fascinating for one core reason and I found your Enneagram follows that concept as well;  we are who we are in utero.  At least, if I read it correctly, I believe that is what I divulged.  It has always been my belief that, in order for our world to work in any way, people must be made up of different psychological parts.  We all can't be legs of the table, what would we be holding up?  Not everyone can have a leadership personality type.  Who would we lead?

Though environment has affected me much in life, at my core, I am not much different than when I was five years old.  And if I take those tests truthfully (and not with idealistic wishfull thinking) I am still that five year old who sadistically cut lil Susie's hair.  

BTW. I took the Quest and the Rheti Sampler and came out a 5w6.  For shits & giggles I tried it out on a couple of friends and their tests came out neutral across all types.  I got a lil peeved and said I should take the test for them because I obviously know them better than they know themselves.  Tongue
This post was last modified: 07-26-2015, 03:39 PM by Smooch. Edit Reason: spelling

"The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate."
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07-26-2015, 09:34 PM #5
Vytas
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I have socionics for that Tongue I checked that typology some years ago but don't really liked it. Looked like more confusing and less complete version of socionics to me. First impression anyways, I might check it more carefully ,im curious now because symbolism is mentioned Smile

(07-26-2015, 09:56 PM)umphreak Wrote:  I'm very interested to see what mix of types the Vigilant crowd consists of.

2 no wings
This post was last modified: 07-26-2015, 10:10 PM by Vytas.

Truth is precious it's guarded by God
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07-26-2015, 09:56 PM #6
umphreak
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Marshall
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(07-26-2015, 03:38 PM)Smooch Wrote:  I am not familiar with Enneagram but because I once worked for a company in Dallas who facilitated "personality tests" for high end companies and clients, I've seen just about every type of test go across my test.  Heck, I was even tested just to be their Secretary.  I got the job because of my minor in Psychology (never finished) and a run through Myers-Briggs.  I found the entire thing Elitist because it was used to weed out inferior apples.

However, as to the actual concept itself, I find such things fascinating for one core reason and I found your Enneagram follows that concept as well;  we are who we are in utero.  At least, if I read it correctly, I believe that is what I divulged.  It has always been my belief that, in order for our world to work in any way, people must be made up of different psychological parts.  We all can't be legs of the table, what would we be holding up?  Not everyone can have a leadership personality type.  Who would we lead?

Though environment has affected me much in life, at my core, I am not much different than when I was five years old.  And if I take those tests truthfully (and not with idealistic wishfull thinking) I am still that five year old who sadistically cut lil Susie's hair.  

BTW. I took the Quest and the Rheti Sampler and came out a 5w6.  For shits & giggles I tried it out on a couple of friends and their tests came out neutral across all types.  I got a lil peeved and said I should take the test for them because I obviously know them better than they know themselves.  Tongue

You're completely correct in your assessment.  Our personalities are there for life and cannot be changed.  We can move up and down along a spectrum from psychologically healthy to unhealthy, but our core or essence is never changed.  We can have more or fewer layers of bullshit that cover up our essence, but the essence is unchanged even by the most intense trauma.  We are, as you said, essentially the same as when we were 5 years old.  This can be a difficult concept for some people to grasp because any given personality at the pinnacle of health may have little resemblance to the same personality type at its most unhealthy.  For instance, since you said you are probably a type 5, a healthy 5 is often highly perceptive, insightful, and brilliant, while an unhealthy 5 may be paranoid, eccentric, isolated, and antagonistic.  Their insightfulness has deteriorated into bizarre theories that may have little grounding in reality.  Yet both are still type 5 at their core.  In the nature vs. nurture debate, nature dictates the personality type and nurture dictates baseline level of psychological health in adulthood.

And yes, it takes all types, so to speak.  Different cultures may value certain personalities over others, but in reality they are all equally valuable and each bring a different and important aspect of humanity to the table.

Even though I don't know you I think you're correct that you're a 5, based on what you've written here.  I'm very interested to see what mix of types the Vigilant crowd consists of.  I suspect there are a lot of 4's and 5's, because those are the types most comfortable investigating disturbing subject matter.  They may even be drawn to it.

(07-26-2015, 09:34 PM)Vytas Wrote:  I have socionics for that  Tongue I checked that typology some years ago but don't really liked it. Looked like  more confusing and less complete version of socionics to me. First impression anyways, I might check it more carefully ,im  curious now because symbolism is mentioned  Smile

(07-26-2015, 09:56 PM)umphreak Wrote:  I'm very interested to see what mix of types the Vigilant crowd consists of.

2 no wings

I had never heard of socionics before.  I just took the test and found it very interesting.  I came up as an EII, which did seem pretty damn accurate in its description, although I felt that something was lacking.  Oddly enough, your description of your first impression of the Enneagram perfectly describes my first impression of socionics - it seems more confusing and less complete to me.  However, that could be because I'm just not familiar enough with it and its organization.
This post was last modified: 07-26-2015, 10:47 PM by umphreak.

07-26-2015, 11:14 PM #7
Vytas
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(07-26-2015, 09:56 PM)umphreak Wrote:  I had never heard of socionics before.  I just took the test and found it very interesting.  I came up as an EII, which did seem pretty damn accurate in its description, although I felt that something was lacking.  Oddly enough, your description of your first impression of the Enneagram perfectly describes my first impression of socionics - it seems more confusing and less complete to me.  However, that could be because I'm just not familiar enough with it and its organization.

I can make it less confusing for you, if you are interested , read C.G Jung Psychological Types, after that read Aušra Augustinavičiūtė model A. Those theories from first sight looks similar and have somewhat similar descriptions of personality types, but explanations, theory and everything else is different, so we got lost a bit both Smile

Truth is precious it's guarded by God
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07-28-2015, 04:27 PM #8
Smooch
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I wish more people, in general, were into personality typing. At the very least, it can be quite fun. However, I find many don't want to be pigeonholed into a stereotype. The funny thing is, as counselors and listeners to our friends we are often "typing" them by inadvertently telling them who they are. But few was to peruse the subject themselves. Maybe it is fear of what one will find that keeps the door closed.

"Oh that is just psycho mumbo jumbo," is often an excuse or, "Too New Age for me," can be another. But years ago I got wind of an Online Temperament Test by Tim LaHaye. Having already been through Meyers-Brigg and Carl Jung to even Gary Smalley's Lion/Otter/Blah/Blah; what is one more test?

I find LaHaye's fascinating and chewed on it for several years. Mainly trying to disassemble it yes reveling in it at the same time. Vytas speaks of Aušra Augustinavičiūtė and Jung. I think, somewhere in the mish-mash of it all discussed here is some great insight into humanity. I guess now I'll have Enneagram to spend some time dissecting as well.

Aren't people fascinating?

"The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate."
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07-28-2015, 10:05 PM #9
umphreak
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Marshall
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(07-28-2015, 04:27 PM)Smooch Wrote:  I wish more people, in general, were into personality typing.  At the very least, it can be quite fun.  However, I find many don't want to be pigeonholed into a stereotype.  The funny thing is, as counselors  and listeners to our friends we are often "typing" them by inadvertently telling them who they are.  But few was to peruse the subject themselves.  Maybe it is fear of what one will find that keeps the door closed.

"Oh that is just psycho mumbo jumbo," is often an excuse or, "Too New Age for me," can be another.  But years ago I got wind of an Online Temperament Test by Tim LaHaye.  Having already been through Meyers-Brigg and Carl Jung to even Gary Smalley's Lion/Otter/Blah/Blah; what is one more test?

I find LaHaye's fascinating and chewed on it for several years.  Mainly trying to disassemble it yes reveling in it at the same time.  Vytas speaks of Aušra Augustinavičiūtė and Jung. I think, somewhere in the mish-mash of it all discussed here is some great insight into humanity.  I guess now I'll have Enneagram to spend some time dissecting as well.

Aren't people fascinating?

I think you really hit the nail on the head there.  I've found that some people are just totally averse to the idea of personality types in general.  They tend to be people who are uncomfortable with the idea of looking at themselves in that way, and incidentally, they tend to be certain personality types (especially Enneagram Nines).  I remember the Nines at the training course I went to talking about how that was something they struggled with, and these were people who were into personality types!  Then there are the people who are initially interested and like it on a superficial level, but when it starts to get into deeper territory they suddenly decide that they "don't like being put into boxes".  It's a way to avoid having to recognize deep hurts that often shape our unconscious patterns.  There is definitely a lot of fear around what we will find if we move into unknown territory.  It's just so much easier to pretend none of that exists, and go on with your day.  But the tradeoff is that you'll never change your less noble characteristics if you can't see them or aren't willing to explore where they came from.  In order to make personal growth, you have to be willing to feel uncomfortable for awhile.  But it's so worth it!  

And then there are the people who decide that the Enneagram is great and all, but that they don't need to look into it that much because they themselves are super fantastically healthy.  In my experience, those people are usually of average health and just can't bear to see themselves that way.  Everybody has some excuse for not examining themselves.

Of course, I don't see the Enneagram as putting people into boxes at all.  It actually allows for infinite variations on personality because technically a person can fall anywhere on the circle, and there are infinite points on a circle.  You are in a box to the degree that you act unconsciously.  That's why people who are less healthy are extremely easy to type.  Sometimes I can tell their type just from their body language, which is a really bad sign.  People who are psychologically healthy are much more difficult to type because they are more integrated in their personality and far less fixated on their type's particular issues.  But those people are rare.