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Electroshock Torture
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07-05-2015, 09:40 AM #1
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NO. This is not an article from a 1940's insane asylum.

It's an article from 2014's massachusetts: 


Read it and weap.

only love can
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  • Trenton, Lotte

10-09-2015, 05:11 AM #2
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Electroconvulsant Shock Therapy (ECT): Is it Safe or Even Effective?


"To be regarded as “therapeutic”, enough electricity in this still very controversial procedure (often utilizing up to 400 volts) has to be given to cause a grand mal seizure, which inevitably results in post-seizure coma. Shock to the brain commonly results in memory loss (both short-term and long-term) and the loss of cognitive abilities (both short-term and long-term).
General anesthesia plus intravenous sedatives are also administered in order to eliminate any memory of the otherwise painful procedure and also to relax muscles (thus minimizing muscle damage and the possibility of fractured bones during the often violent seizure). Both drugs are brain-altering and potentially brain-damaging but are routinely given. The cocktail of futile and potentially neurotoxic psychiatric drugs that may even have caused chemical brain damage are typically continued for fear of causing serious withdrawal syndromes if they were to be stopped."

People who surrender their former religious beliefs have got to be some of the smartest and bravest people in the world because they set out to find truth even while under the threat of "eternal damnations". George Carlin
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  • Trenton

10-09-2015, 05:32 AM #3
Robert Baird
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As an activist in the consumer survivor community (Yes, they are indeed 'survivors') I was in contact with a young lady lawyer who headed up the intake issues for all Ontario Psychiatric institutions. She told me she was amazed to find out this barbaric torture was still being done, She told me about a family whose father and grandfather was at North York General Hospital where a doctor wanted to give ECT. The government (you should know) was paying for ECTs directly and Hospitals always want more money - it did not come from OHIP or the normal fund.

She got a pro bono lawfirm involved to help the family fight his declaration of need which overrode their disapproval.

You mention the drugs reduce any memory of it - well - not just that! In current practice they have a cocktail of drugs so the person cannot just think about what memory to erase and avoid the horror. That used to be possible but through decades of human experimentation without consent (informed or otherwise) they have perfected this treatment. The government directed a three part TV show which said "It is like a pacemaker, restarting the natural biorythms of the brain." They do not know the brain circuitry that well and only recently discovered the lymph and psychic system connects to the brain (at the U of Virginia). I have written a book called Which Doctors which details a great deal more than most people can stomach.

One person I knew had been given a lobotomy and did not even know it (after 20 years) until I asked about the scars on his forehead and when he had gotten them.

And if it is so good why will insurance companies not insure a doctor who has been given an ECT?

They gave it to a friend of mine who had heart problems - probably from other treatments. His wife was a nurse giving anaesthetics and such. She could not believe I was right. I got him to go to the Research Librsary and check out what I said. He said he would not let them do it - but he was dead shortly thereafter.
This post was last modified: 10-09-2015, 05:38 AM by Robert Baird.
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  • flow, Trenton

10-09-2015, 05:44 AM #4
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Oh my, during my stay in a mental hospital for around 3 years, the doctors did it to most people. I was a bit afraid. They said "It's safe though, at most your toe twitches.."

I met a woman who WORKED there, who had a ECT treatment several times a month for the last 20 years, and her brain is fried. She swore by it... but, man. It's not a good method.

It's supposed to knock your neurons with some power, to allow them to function less. It's barbaric. It does fix undesirable behaviours very short term, but the sudden side effects coupled with the long term ones, do not justify the means.

It's awful.

I know you're coming in the night like a thief, but I've had some time alone, to hone my lying technique. I know you think that I'm someone you can trust, but I'm scared I'll get scared, and I swear I'll try to nail you back up. So do you think that we could work out a sign, so I'll know it's you and that it's over so I won't even try? I know you're coming for the people like me. We've all got wood and nails, turned out in a hate factory.
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  • flow, Vixy

10-09-2015, 06:13 AM #5
Robert Baird
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A three part TV mini-series in Canada showed how good old people getting along in weaving classes and such had benefitted from MODERN ECT therapy. They said it was "like a pacemaker for the heart to re-start the brain's natural biorhythms" or some garbage which suggests they know enough about the brain to compare it with electrical neural supplementation in hearts. They had Dr. Cohen of Montreal appear and introduced him as an expert - which he is; then did not let him speak. It was a travesty and enraging to anyone who knows what they do and why they do it. You won't soon learn these things and I hope you never have to, but it will happen and you won't be able to stop it when it does happen. It isn't just a drugging for dollars campaign. BTW lobotomies are still performed although I don't think they use ice picks like Old Joe Kennedy got Dr. Freeman to do when his daughter started talking about things he did not want the public to hear (see A&E documentary).

 I know how people respond to intense and detailed literature being thrown at them in support of ideas they do not understand or even want to hear about. I have mentioned that old age is a target for drug abuse and invasive torture. That includes the cocktail of drugs that have been developed (Using human guinea pigs who weren't told squat) to make it so ECTs can burn random areas of the brain. It used to be possible for a victim to think about what the psychiatrists were doing and get those memories burned out of their brain.

 Thus I have to show you how they justify these terrible acts which if they did it to a colleague - no insurance provider would cover that colleague for malpractice insurance due to the damage done to the brain. Here is a specific argument they use which will allow any person over 70 who is starting to lose their memory or feel a little confused; to be medicated and given ECTs (usually a battery of six separate events).

 "ECT has been effective in the treatment of catatonia,[31] neuroleptic malignant syndrome,[32] depression associated with Parkinson disease,[33, 34] pain,[35] particular cases of delirium,[36] and acute confusion psychosis.[37] It has also been effective in treating patients with intellectual disabilities who have treatment-resistant mood or psychotic disorders.[38]

 ECT may be useful in patients with major depressive disorder for whom medication or psychotherapy has not been effective in maintaining stability during the continuation phase.[19] ECT should be considered in patients whose condition has failed to respond to medication trials, individuals who have not tolerated indicated medications, or those who have previously shown a response to ECT.[9, 19] ECT also should be considered in patients with melancholic[39] and atypical[40] depression."


And you must know there are people who can be duped into anything and say the nicest things about those who damage them. I worked trying to help a man who was the Poster Boy for ECTs. He told me he said whatever the psychiatrists wanted to hear. I think he needed attention and also told me what I wanted to hear - specifically he told them what he told them and others they told him to speak to, so they would not give him more torture. He had been given over 60 separate treatments for catatonic schizophrenia, over more than two decades. He still had periods of weird behaviour when we did not include him in social intimate discourses and games. I found him very engaging and helpful in helping other people too. The next link tells a very positive story. I have witnessed the treatments and I have also seen people hide in fear of treatments. I believe this person is telling truth as she knows it and I do think putting a person under before blasting their brain with electricity is a good improvement over what was done to my mother.

 "As you can see, what I have described to you is as far removed from torture as daisies are from poison ivy!

 If you want to know more about what happens while the patient is asleep, here is some authoritative information for you. {It was an active link promoting ECTs.}

 For me, ECT did something wonderful. It put my 'little chuff-chuff' back on its rails. It's as if my brain's internal cogs started to rotate again. My capacity to read, write and speak increased dramatically after ECT. I could function so much better."


No doubt she can look forward to more of these helpful treatments throughout her life - and if the treatment actually worked why is it needed over and over again/ Dr. Cohen documents in places where it is not used people get better in 50% of cases as they approach 50 - this happened with my mother but she still had effects from the ECT.

 You will hear both sides of the argument if you want to read. Dr. Breggin co-authored a book with Dr. Cohen called The Pill May Be the Problem which I read and recommend highly. He and his wife launched a lawsuit against psychiatry which Scientology co-opted and which was quashed after Patriot Act II was made law (My recollection may be wrong you will have to check.).

 "Dr. Peter R. Breggin a psychiatrist from New York has been speaking out publicly against the use of electroshock for over 30 years. Dr. Breggin wrote an article in 2007 about ECT called “Disturbing News for Shock Doctors and Patients Alike” In his article at the URL:


 Breggin states that electroshock ECT always causes brain damage according to an ECT study that was done recently.

 See Dr. Breggin’s website at “http://www.breggin.com” for lots of info on the adverse effects of electroshock and psychiatric drugs.
 See the website “ECT.org” for lots of info.

 “Electroshock is violence”
 – said by Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General and human rights advocate – invited address to the Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, New York City (May 1983)"

This post was last modified: 10-09-2015, 06:19 AM by Robert Baird.
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  • Trenton

10-10-2015, 08:17 AM #6
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I participated in it countless times, sometimes its very effective, but those are rare cases, usually its effective short term ( in a sense), 1 year of quality life is short term. Sometimes it does nothing, those are rare cases too.
No one likes it, neither personnel, neither patients, its done after all possible drugs are tested, IMHO this is the part which is most inhuman and cruel...
Procedure itself is quite simple, patient gets anesthetic, after that he gets electrocution for few seconds, no risk in it, never had any problems or complications, only wake up process after it is unpleasant and long for some 30-60 min. They have poor toleration for anesthetics...
There is so many cases where psychiatry is powerless, without ECT it would be around 30-40 % in hospital I work.
All in all psychiatry cant help anyone, if you ended up in there, its almost guarantee you will come back...and after you come back, you will comeback more... patients for life. Our society creates patients and psychiatry makes sure they will stay that way.
Psychiatry is part of pharmakeia, just another side of deception

Truth is precious it's guarded by God
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  • Elf

10-10-2015, 11:19 AM #7
Robert Baird
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The sad part is that all the money spent trying to supposedly help people is wasted.

I was told I should sit on the board of a psychiatric re-build after a person was maliciously left alone in a locked room with only a pot to shit in - no food even - three days.

It turned out the person was not even a 'mental case'.

I told the person who wanted me on this board that they would spend 12 Million and do no real change because they were blaming the system and the lack of funding. I told that person less money would produce better results and the neuroleptic drugs should only be used during trauma which is a few months at most.

They put lipstick on the pig as I said they would - and spent the exact amount of money I said they would. The place is nicer for families to visit - no change for the victims of alienation and degradation who get called names like 'mental cases' and worse.

Drs. Cohen and Breggin along with many others say there is no proof of long term bi-polar conditions to the extent it is diagnosed. Two years of response in a bad case of trauma at most. There are chronic cases which can be helped with deep brain stimulation but those people can be taught ways to address their moods.

Schizophrenia is the only other family of illnesses - of over 450 supposed illnesses (like not getting enough sun-SAD)
and in all but .06% (point zero six) of cases it is a physiological event with a smaller brain size due to metabolic and nutritional uptake circumstances. My 'twin' worked on the developement of the drug which restores the brain to it's normal; size. The drug is given in far larger amounts (seven times per the U of T study) than it should be. That causes schizo behaviour.

Around age 50 most sufferers have a return of brain size and I think there is a connection with menopausal or sexual hormones to it, from the start. Another issue is deep breathing and stress build up from lack of real breathing by little portions every day over years. (toxic buildups result eventually) I think it is Dr. Mondimore who I saw confirming that - but it is years since I wrote books and did the research so it might be another doctor who noticed this - which also causes sleep apnea.

Indeed stress relief through yoga (not just Hatha) would greatly diminish all disease including heart disease and cancer. Ayurvada addresses the nutritional aspects of stressors. We could teach people to help themselves and each other from an early age. Instead we refuse to address real issues like Family Violence which is a MAJOR stressor - not just from actual sexual abuse - but from people who get involved and love those victims (see my poem on the fuzzy white rabbit). No caring person alive in our society is immune from the disgusting effluent of this victimization ethos including "spare the rod, spoil the child".

The Vaniers (Son of the former GG of Canada) have a far better way of addressing the problem. In one case a woman who had decades of schizophrenic behaviour in their Mexico farm retreat recovered after two years of normal purposeful participation in a place everyone cares for each other.
This post was last modified: 10-10-2015, 11:25 AM by Robert Baird.

10-11-2015, 05:20 AM #8
Annonymous Damsel
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ECT is most commonly used for people with severe depression, particularly those who are delusional or at risk of suicide. But a majority of people with depression do not reach the point that they need electroconvulsive therapy, and many respond instead to treatments like medication and psychotherapy.

The treatment is also sometimes used to reduce mania in people with bipolar disorder.

It is used less frequently for people with schizophrenia.Its mostly used in mental hospitals

10-11-2015, 05:39 AM #9
Robert Baird
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Here is what would work on a grand scale - it also would save billions of dollars and make many millions of people into far more productive human beings. I am so sorry (NOT!) that it is contrary to those who think they know something who work in the hospital and medical community who are in fact torturing and damaging people who should be loved and cared about.



A few weeks ago a friend passed me the name of a fellow named Jean Vanier because they thought I might enjoy the story of how he came to found the L'Arche Communities. Here's an excerpt from a book of his that I picked up...
 </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

 I have had the occasion to visit quite a number of asylums and psychiatric hospitals in France and in other countries. It can be very painful to go into certain hospitals, to see men and women crying out for love, roaming around with nothing to do, hitting their heads on the floor, living in a world of dream and psychosis. Some places smell of urine or disinfectant. If you have had the privilege of penetrating into some of these places, you will have seen unbearable pain. It is difficult to be present there.

 Many people in our modern world are living in unbearable situations. I was told that just a few weeks ago a new place was opened for people in Boston. Every evening they line up in order to be admitted for the night at the armory building. The next morning, after a cup of coffee, they are put back into the streets. Then, they roam around all day until the next evening. Many of them have been discharged from psychiatric hospitals or big institutions and have nowhere else to go. There is much anger, deep depression and intense pain inside them. When such pain becomes too much, then people tend to slip into a world of dream. Reality is just too painful. The world of dream or psychosis can in some way, be easier to bear.

 Our L'Arche communities are also places of pain becuase they are founded on people who have been through a great deal of anguish. Today, in richer countries, hospitals and asylums may be cleaner, but the same men and women are still there crying out for a home and for love. Sometimes these people have been put in residences, but frequently these residences are not a home either and they are not well accepted by the neighbors.

 For twenty-five years now I have had the privilege of living with men and women with disabilities. I have discovered that even though a person may have severe brain damage, that is not the greatest source of his or her greatest pain. The greatest pain is rejection, the feeling that nobody really wants you "like that". The feeling that you are seen as ugly, dirty, a burden, of no value. That is the pain I have discovered in the hearts of our people.
 Another moving discovery I made when I began to live with Raphael and Philip was of their deep cry for communion. This was a cry for love and friendship; it flowed from their loneliness and inner pain. You have surely experienced that too if you have visited people in institutions. Suddenly, you are surrounded by men and women saying to you (at least through the look in their eyes): "Will you be my friend? Am I important to you? Do I have any value?" Some of these people may seem to be hiding away in a corner of the room, hiding behind the bars of self-hatred or in a world of dream and psychosis. Still others might be hitting their heads on the wall. But in each one of them there is that same deep cry for love, friendship and communion. At the same time, in many of them there is also the deep fear that nobody can really love them, that nobody really wants them, because they are "dirty," "evil," "no good".

 My experience has shown that when we welcome people from this world of anguish, brokeness and depression, and when they gradually discover that they are wanted and loved as they are and that they have a place, then we witness a real transformation -- I would even say "resurrection". Their tense, angry, fearful, depressed body gradually becomes relaxed, peaceful and trusting. This shows through the expression on the face and through all their flesh. As they discover a sense of belonging, that they are part of a "family," then the will to live begins to emerge. I do not believe it is of any value to push people into doing things unless this desire to live and grow has begun to emerge.
Source: From Brokeness to Community

 </div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
 I thought it was worth dragging that name into this space because it's possible that those who are seeking alternatives to hospitalized care might be able to find care for themselves or a loved one within a community setting, such as L'Arche. If any of you should be aware of other community type settings, please do share the link.

[end of quote]

Beginning of apologies from fools - not likely. I find usually it takes a couple of hundred slaps in the face for people to own up to how they are the problem - not the elite or boogeymen.
This post was last modified: 10-11-2015, 05:42 AM by Robert Baird.

10-11-2015, 06:52 AM #10
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(10-10-2015, 11:19 AM)Robert Baird Wrote:  The sad part is that all the money spent trying to supposedly help people is wasted.

Wasted pile of paper is sad part ?
This post was last modified: 10-11-2015, 06:54 AM by Vytas.

Truth is precious it's guarded by God

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