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06-21-2016, 02:19 AM #1
BaronAmity
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Please- let's not attack each other. Everyone on this website is very important. We represent a small segment of the population that is aware of how society is being manipulated. The ones manipulating would love for people like us to attack each other- it takes our eyes off the bigger picture and reduces us to pettiness. I apolgize to JustJess and anyone else I've attacked on here. I understand that people will probably still attack each other but not everyone will fall into that trap and so my hope is not entirely futile.

I simply would like for people to openly and frankly discuss their thoughts on hell. I just want an open and peaceful discussion. I respect the people on this forum and I might just learn something.

You can speak as a Christian, a Muslim, an Atheist/Agnostic, whatever viewpoint you're coming from.
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06-21-2016, 02:28 AM #2
BaronAmity
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My own thoughts are merely intended as a side-note, not to be the intended focus of the thread. My ideal would be for this thread to resemble a symposium of philosophers in a Platonic dialogue. It's about ideas, not persons.

For me personally, I am still trying to figure out an understanding of hell as a Christian. I think something corresponding to hell would make sense- someone told me that if everyone went to heaven, then heaven would be violent just like earth and full of drama. People are opposed to hell but support that society needs jails and prisons- I imagine hell as serving the same function. But does it necessarily have to be eternal? What if Hitler goes to hell and everyone in hell has his mentality and he sees the error of his ways and repents? Maybe after a certain amount of time, he could be reformed and go to heaven.

My personal question is- is there a sound theological basis for universal reconciliation?
This post was last modified: 06-21-2016, 02:29 AM by BaronAmity.
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06-21-2016, 02:35 AM #3
Thunderian
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If universal reconciliation was a thing, then why was it necessary for Jesus to die on the cross?
This post was last modified: 06-21-2016, 02:36 AM by Thunderian. Edit Reason: ... spelling
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06-21-2016, 02:40 AM #4
Yahda
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Hell is a grave. It's that simple.

Judgment is God's wrath.

God never said anything about soul burning outside of his wrath which is the same as facing judgment. Now if you want to call the fire balls that will fall from the sky hell I guess that will be a good way to describe it. 

 Isaiah 47:14 Look they are like stubble. A fire will burn them up. They can not save themselves from the power of the flame. THESE ARE NOT CHARCOAL FOR KEEPING WARM.

On a lighter note let's just call it judgment !



Now he did say a few bodies ( and not even souls) would burn forever. I'll see if I can find that scripture. Isaiah 

66:23 and from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath all flesh will come in and bow down before me, and they will go out and look upon the carcasses of the men who rebelled against me

For the worms on them will not die and their fire will not be extinguished

And they will become something repulsive to all people"

 
Besides that, to go to hell is to go into the ground. Ashes to ashes until you are raised back up. And as God says, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame.

 Daniel 12:2

And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to ever lasting contempt
This post was last modified: 06-21-2016, 03:15 AM by Yahda.

~Yahda
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06-21-2016, 02:41 AM #5
BaronAmity
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(06-21-2016, 02:35 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  If universal reconciliation was a thing, then why was it necessary for Jesus to die on the cross?

Can you elaborate? I'm not trying to attack your argument, I just want to understand it in a fuller manner.

06-21-2016, 02:50 AM #6
damien50
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(06-21-2016, 02:41 AM)BaronAmity Wrote:  
(06-21-2016, 02:35 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  If universal reconciliation was a thing, then why was it necessary for Jesus to die on the cross?

Can you elaborate? I'm not trying to attack your argument, I just want to understand it in a fuller manner.

If in right, what he is trying to say is that the theory of universal reconciliation essentially nullifies the act of salvation and names the sacrifice of Christ worthless.

I personally find the theory of universalism just as useless as some find the concept of a triune God.
This post was last modified: 06-21-2016, 02:52 AM by damien50.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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06-21-2016, 02:51 AM #7
KoncreteMind
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(06-21-2016, 02:40 AM)Yahda Wrote:  Hell is a grave. It's that simple.

Judgment is God's wrath.

God never said anything about soul burning outside of his wrath which is the same as facing judgment. Now if you want to call the fire balls that will fall from the sky hell I guess that will be a good way to describe it. On a lighter note let's just call it judgement.

Now he did say a few bodies ( and not even souls) would burn around a perimeter forever as a reminder of his wrath. I'll see if I can find that scripture.

 Besides that, to go to hell is to go into the ground. Ashes to ashes until you are raised back up. And as God says. Some to.....can't think of the word he used but it wasn't good, and some to ever lasting life. I'll update with that verse as well.

What do you say "everlasting contempt" and "everlasting happiness" mentioned in Daniel 12 is about?
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06-21-2016, 02:56 AM #8
Yahda
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Yes that's it. Thanks.

~Yahda
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06-21-2016, 03:06 AM #9
Thunderian
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(06-21-2016, 02:41 AM)BaronAmity Wrote:  
(06-21-2016, 02:35 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  If universal reconciliation was a thing, then why was it necessary for Jesus to die on the cross?

Can you elaborate? I'm not trying to attack your argument, I just want to understand it in a fuller manner.

No problem.  Smile

Universal reconciliation says that everyone will ultimately be reconciled to God, whether they were believers in Jesus Christ in this world or not.  This means, I presume, that everyone from Joseph Stalin to Jimmy Savile will one day stand in front of Jesus and he will say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

The Bible teaches that there is one way to salvation, and that is through Jesus Christ's shed blood.  Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.  Not, "Believe whatever you want.  It's all good."  If that was the case, why would God even bother letting us know who he was?  What would it matter?

To somehow infer from scripture that God is so wonderful that he eventually gives everyone a pass is beyond any reasonable interpretation of the Bible. Salvation is not a participant trophy.  We aren't all winners.  

The Bible speaks of perishing as a result of unbelief in Christ.  ... that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  It's clearly one or the other.  There is no other way to take the cumulative message of the word of God, than to believe that there will be an eternal separation of believers and unbelievers.  Nothing could be so horrible as an eternity without God.

But God is not willing that any should perish.  That's why he came to earth as a man and lived and died for us, so we could be with him.  But if we are all reconciled to him in the end, without believing on his shed blood, then his perfect life and sacrificial death were a waste of time.
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06-21-2016, 03:06 AM #10
Yahda
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(06-21-2016, 02:51 AM)KoncreteMind Wrote:  
(06-21-2016, 02:40 AM)Yahda Wrote:  Hell is a grave. It's that simple.

Judgment is God's wrath.

God never said anything about soul burning outside of his wrath which is the same as facing judgment. Now if you want to call the fire balls that will fall from the sky hell I guess that will be a good way to describe it. On a lighter note let's just call it judgement.

Now he did say a few bodies ( and not even souls) would burn around a perimeter forever as a reminder of his wrath. I'll see if I can find that scripture.

 Besides that, to go to hell is to go into the ground. Ashes to ashes until you are raised back up. And as God says. Some to.....can't think of the word he used but it wasn't good, and some to ever lasting life. I'll update with that verse as well.

What do you say "everlasting contempt" and "everlasting happiness" mentioned in Daniel 12 is about?


I have my thoughts what about you ? Care to share ?

~Yahda