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Do Christians NEED to go church? Or just need the Holy Ghost?


04-27-2016, 06:10 AM #1
Scimitar
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(04-27-2016, 05:36 AM)X.Y Wrote:  Luckily, Christians don't need a church, all they (we) need is the Holy Spirit to guide us in this world of deception and confusion.
 

Big Grin what a stupid thing to say

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. - Matthew 16:18

Does the Holy Spirit manifest in many Christians at the same time and then cause them to argue with each other on these boards?

YES - evidently it does - which begs the question - who has it? really? Big Grin see, people have left your faith, right here on this board - because of these points YOU RAISED,


well done Smile

Scimi
This post was last modified: 04-27-2016, 06:11 AM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi
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04-27-2016, 06:38 AM #2
Alex
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Hope you don't mind if i bump this continuously in the coming days. I am curious as well which sect has the holy ghost.

"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"

~Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra)

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04-27-2016, 08:12 AM #3
Sidhuriel
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That was one of my big issues with the Holy Spirit which got me doubting Christianity.

If the Holy Spirit is God's perfect word; why does every Christian say different things?

Muslims have varied opinions too; but the central dogma is the same.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness
Only light can do that
Hate can't drive out hate
Only love can do that
Heart
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04-27-2016, 08:50 AM #4
Kung Fu
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May God forgive me for saying this but under Christian theology if God can have a son is it possible that he can have a mother, father, brothers, and sisters as well?

I say this because if we try to understand Christian theology through a rational lens than going by the logic that God has a son it makes sense that he would have a father and or mother as well.

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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04-27-2016, 08:53 AM #5
Todd
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True Christians need both!

Of course once that is established we have to define the "church" and the "Holy Ghost".

Jesus said in John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

The problem is that too many so called Christian's have been listening to a Spirit that does not stay within the boundaries that Jesus set in this verse.  If the "Spirit" we are listening to contradicts or teaches something other than what Jesus said than we must question whether that is really the Holy Spirit or another Spirit.  By surveying what scriptures are preached the most often from the pulpit, the modern day Christian Church seems to be following a Spirit that brings to remembrance what Paul taught and preached rather than what Jesus taught and preached.  Is that the same spirit that Jesus spoke of in John 14:26?  I have my doubts....

So what is a church?  The English word "Church" is translated from the greek word ecclesia, which means called out or separated ones.  The word does not specifically mean an institutional organization.  Jesus said whenever two or three were gathered in his name that he would be in the midst of them.  That is the most basic fundamental form of "church"... two or three or more people gathered in the name of Jesus.   You don't need a building, a pastor, a bishop, a pope, or a 501c3 non-profit status to be a church.

So in conclusion the Christian needs both a consistent gathering of at least two or three other believers and the Spirit that reminds them of what Jesus (not Paul) said and preached.
This post was last modified: 04-27-2016, 08:55 AM by Todd.

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did
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04-27-2016, 08:55 AM #6
damien50
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http://www.gotquestions.org/who-Holy-Spirit.html

Your question essentially is "do Christian's just need God?"

Church has it's purposes but it is not compulsory in any way.  There's nothing can be done in a church that can't be done outside of it.

@Sid
Jesus is the word living.

Quote:If the Holy Spirit is God's perfect word; why does every Christian say different things?

Every Christian says different things because there are various Bibles and various doctrine and theologies and denominations.  Just cause one calls themselves a Christian doesn't automatically elevate themselves to higher level of higher understanding.

One can be a Christian for twenty years but that doesn't make them any more knowledgeable that one who had been for five.

Ultimately consistency doesn't lie with man but with the Word of God.

@KF
So because God manifest in the flesh that automatically means he should logically have an entire family?
This post was last modified: 04-27-2016, 08:57 AM by damien50.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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04-27-2016, 08:57 AM #7
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I don't participate in Church (this can change), but I know for sure the Holy Spirit has real power. Eversince I was saved, and  baptised with the Holy Spirit (without being dunked in water, although I would like to someday). I overcame many things which I couldn't do before such as.

Smoking - before I was saved, I had a hard time quitting smoking. now with the help of Holy Spirit, I just quit cold turkey for about 8 week now. and nothing can make me come back anymore for sure.

Drugs - I never say NO to drug, but now it is a "Get Away From Me"

Sex - I had sex all the time (I'm not married), now I just feel disgusted

Gambling - this one is big for me, when my blood is heating up it is usually not a good financial sign. I drive 3 hr one way to the casino every week. now, I'm saving that gas money to buy some good tasty fruits

Driving - I usually drive pretty wreckless, now I drive like an old man and judging how wreckless the other kids are driving

Cussing - Yeah, I love cussing in every other sentences. Now, I'm prevent it from even coming to my thoughts. Take a lot of self reminder but it has been working well.

Drunkard - Now, as sober as a bunny

Gluttony - OH yeah, who doesn't love food? I know I do for sure. Now, I eat just enough and try not to surpass the full line.

Many other addictions, the point is the Holy Spirit has this power to overcome many problems in your life. These changes are ALL recently.

I'm a man and I thought that I will never cry but the other day when I think about what Jesus did for me (saving my soul), I was driving and tears of joy and appreciation started to coming out uncontrollably. It felt so great, glad no one saw me crying. Another time was when I watch a music video about Jesus, the Holy Spirit kicked in and I felt so much love and joy and started crying again. IT was great. Anything that remind of me what Jesus did for everyone, how he sacrifice himself put me to tears, only with the Holy Spirit then you can feel it. I don't know how else to explain it, you just have to go through it to believe it.

Sins = punishments = death

Lets Jesus take the punishments for you now, no one is good enough to endure any punishments from God nor can they erase their sins.

Tell Jesus " Thank you for taking the punishment for me" that is why I cried, the Holy Spirits allowed me to truly felt what Jesus has done for all.

So, I believe every Christians need the Holy Spirit to fully walk their path. It work differently on everyone for sure.

Godbless
This post was last modified: 04-27-2016, 09:08 AM by Floss.
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04-27-2016, 09:17 AM #8
Artful Revealer
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Sid, did you never believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus?





(04-27-2016, 08:50 AM)Kung Fu Wrote:  
May God forgive me for saying this but under Christian theology if God can have a son is it possible that he can have a mother, father, brothers, and sisters as well?

I say this because if we try to understand Christian theology through a rational lens than going by the logic that God has a son it makes sense that he would have a father and or mother as well.
The original Trinity is Valentinian: the Father, the Mother and the Son. The Mother is the feminin aspect of God, since the fullness consists of joint dualities. The feminin aspect and the Holy Ghost are the same. It just got coded into Catholic doctrine the way it was.
This post was last modified: 04-27-2016, 09:22 AM by Artful Revealer.

Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew. - Gospel of Philip

04-27-2016, 09:23 AM #9
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I didn't start receiving understanding until I came out of the church which was over a decade ago. All those years I spent in church I didn't learn anything but the usual " a savior died for my sins" 

So I would say I'm with the Christians on this one. However I don't think they have the proper understanding of what the Holy Spirit actually is.

Job 32:7 I thought, let age speak and let a multitude of years declare wisdom 

BUT it is the spirit in people. THE BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY, that gives them understanding 

Age alone does not make one wise

Nor is it only men who understand what is right


33:14 For God speaks once, and a second time but no one pays attention. In a dream, a vision of the night when deep sleep falls upon people. While they sleep in their beds ( not church)

Then he uncovers their ears and impresses his instructions upon them.

TO TURN A PERSON FROM WRONGDOING ( coughs floss) and to protect a man from pride. 

GOD spared his soul from the pit"


The Holy Spirit gives you wisdom and understanding. It does not matter if you go to church forever or never been in your life. You can be young or old, well studied or not....It is God who grant understanding to whom he pleases, and if he hasn't granted understanding you are still stuck in the matrix.

 He is the master teacher and if you are not receiving the word through his spirit he hasn't opened up to you, yet ! It's one of the most awesome displays of his power. God teaches his word. Not man, and I hope we all get to experience this Power ! I hope we all experience learning from the Master Teacher !

~Yahda
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04-27-2016, 09:26 AM #10
Kung Fu
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(04-27-2016, 08:55 AM)damien50 Wrote:  @KF
So because God manifest in the flesh that automatically means he should logically have an entire family?

So is it God manifesting in the flesh or is it His son?

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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