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Glasgow mosque leader praises extremist killer


03-26-2016, 09:25 PM #1
Thunderian
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I asked on another thread why so many young Muslims are joining ISIS, but I was told that ISIS are not real Muslims, and anyway, the Jews are much worse.  Another great debate for the books.  

Then I happened to read about the biggest mosque -- the biggest religious center of ANY kind -- in Scotland, where the imam calls an extremist murder a "true Muslim", and where moderate Muslims leaders say they are being forced out, and it makes sense now that any kind of reasonable response is completely out of the question when it comes to some people.

Quote:The religious leader at Scotland's biggest mosque has praised an extremist who was executed for committing murder in Pakistan, the BBC can reveal.

Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman of Glasgow Central Mosque used the messaging platform WhatsApp to show his support for Mumtaz Qadri.

Qadri was hanged in February after murdering a local politician who opposed strict blasphemy laws.

In a statement the imam said the messages had been taken out of context.

He said that he was expressing his opposition to capital punishment.

In messages seen by the BBC, Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman says that he is "disturbed" and "upset" at the news of Qadri's execution, before writing "rahmatullahi alai", a religious blessing usually given to devout Muslims and meaning may God's mercy be upon him.

In another, he says: "I cannot hide my pain today. A true Muslim was punished for doing which [sic] the collective will of the nation failed to carry out."

Maulana Habib Ur Rehman is the most senior imam at Glasgow Central Mosque, a role which involves leading prayers and giving religious guidance and teachings.

The BBC has confirmed with members of the group that the messages come from the imam.

Qadri was employed as a bodyguard for the governor of Punjab province in Pakistan, Salman Taseer, before turning on him in 2011 and shooting him 28 times.

After the shooting Qadri reportedly told journalists that he was "proud" and that he had killed a "blasphemer".

The support for Qadri expressed in the UK by some Muslims from a group within Islam that is generally regarded as moderate was unexpected.

Those supporting his actions came from within Sunni Islam, and a group known as Barelvis, who control just under 40% of mosques in the UK.

These Sufis are not generally connected with jihadist groups, and present themselves in Pakistan and elsewhere as defenders of a moderate, peaceful Islam.

However, on the day of Qadri's funeral, one of the co-directors of the Association of British Muslims, Paul Salahuddin-Armstrong, was so shocked by comments on social media in the UK praising the killer that he wrote a blog post.

"Horrified… I honestly don't know where to begin," he said.

He said he was also "appalled" to find a prominent mosque in Birmingham - the Ghamkol Sharif - had termed Qadri a "martyr" on its website.

The Barelvis' reverence for the Prophet Muhammad is one of great intensity, and goes back to the founder of their movement, Ahmad Raza Khan Barelvi, in the 19th Century. So the issue of blasphemy is one that is likely to rouse strong emotions among Barelvi wherever they live.

Nonetheless, the public support for a convicted murderer by some of their religious leaders in the UK will worry some observers of Islam here.

Pakistan has some of the strictest blasphemy laws in the world, which can carry a potential death sentence for those judged to have insulted the majority religion of Islam.

Human rights campaigners and liberal politicians, including Taseer, have criticised the laws as draconian and believe that they are abused to target minority groups.

The laws do, however, have mainstream support in the country and an estimated crowd of more than 30,000 people attended Qadri's funeral earlier this month.

Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman told the BBC: "The assassination of Salman Taseer is widely condemned.

"Whether I agree or disagree with the views he expressed, as an Imam and as a human being I express abhorrence at the manner in which he was executed.

"The execution was not in accordance with Islamic teachings and principles."

Lawyer Aamer Anwar has called for reform at Glasgow Central Mosque.

He told the BBC: "To describe a convicted terrorist as a true Muslim is grotesque.

"Let's be clear: Mumtaz Qadri was a terrorist. He was no national hero and he was no martyr.

"These views expressed are grotesque and whether done privately or publicly they should be condemned unequivocally.

"There's real concern within the community that if this is an imam expressing such views, then what is he expressing to our children."

In further messages, the Imam refers to Qadri as "brother" and says that, by killing his employer whom he was paid to protect, he was "carrying out the collective responsibility of the ummat," or Muslims as a whole.

His execution, he says, "is a collective failure of Pakistani Muslims".

Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman is challenged by others in the group who question why he is speaking about a convicted murderer in such glowing terms.

One member argues that Qadri took the law into his own hands and that he should not be made a hero for doing so.

The Imam also likens Qadri's actions to those fighting Nazi occupation during World War Two.

"Just when France was occupied by Nazies [sic], French did all they had to in order to protect their nation," he writes.

"They were national heroes. Hanging Mumtaz Qadri has raised serious questions about Pakistan's independence."

And he links his execution to the issue of Pakistani nationhood.

"The issue is not of an individual. The issue is of national identity and Islamic spirit."

"The fact that the nation chose to settle the issue of Reymond Davis [sic] by forcing his relatives to accept the blood money, and sending Mumtaz bhai [brother] to gallows is a source of grief and immense pain."

Raymond Davis was a contractor with the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in Pakistan.

In 2011, he was arrested and imprisoned in the city of Lahore after he was accused of shooting dead two men, triggering a diplomatic incident between the two countries.

He was released after the families of the two men were paid compensation of $2.3m, which many in the country considered to be "blood money".

The WhatsApp messages are the latest controversy at Glasgow Central Mosque, which is the largest place of worship of any religion in Scotland.

The mosque was plunged into turmoil last month when seven members of its executive committee resigned amid claims of intimidation by more conservative figures at the mosque.

The allegations were denied by those accused.

The Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator (OSCR) is also investigating claims of financial irregularities at the charity which runs the mosque and what it has described as an "unusual" management structure.

Glasgow Central Mosque is governed by two sets of trustees - the executive committee who operate the charity and the property trustees who manage the mosque building.

OSCR's interim report into the mosque in January found the trustees, who are made up of more conservative figures at the mosque, had acted beyond their powers.

There is said to be a long-running contest at the mosque between more traditionalist figures and those, including the seven who resigned, who would like it to be more inclusive of women and non-Pakistani Muslims.

In January, The Herald reported that Glasgow Central Mosque had donated money to the orthodox group Tablighi Jamaat, which some argue promotes an extreme brand of Islam.

The group says that it rejects violence.

Mr Anwar said: "There needs to be diversity, there needs to be equality and they need to open it up.

"We're not living in Pakistan, we're living in Scotland, and we need to see the values and ideas of the people of Scotland [at the mosque]."

In a statement, the imam said: "Mumtaz Qadri's execution is condemned as it is not in accordance with due process nor is it in accordance with Islamic teachings and principles.

"The selective messages disclosed to you by an unauthorised third party have been misconstrued and taken out of context.

"Capital punishment on this particular occasion was inappropriate and any expressions of sympathy or compassion are extended in my capacity as a private individual and not in any professional or public capacity."

Glasgow Central Mosque did not respond to requests for comment.

link

And speaking of unreasonable responses, what the hell is going on with Muslims in Scotland, anyway?

Quote:Muslim shopkeeper killed in Scotland after wishing Christians a Happy Easter

Scottish police say the killing of a Muslim shopkeeper who wished Christians a happy Easter is being investigated as “religiously prejudiced.”

Vigils were held Friday and Saturday in memory of 40-year-old Asad Shah, who was killed Thursday night in Glasgow.

He had apparently posted messages on Facebook calling for religious harmony: “Good Friday and very happy Easter, especially to my beloved Christian nation x!”

Police say a 32-year-old man has been arrested in connection with Shah’s death. The suspect, who police say is Muslim, has not been identified or charged.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon joined the Friday vigil in support of Shah and his family in Glasgow. Many lit candles and left flowers.

Roughly 150 people also gathered in a light rain on Saturday to honor him, an event organized by local teens.

Police Scotland said that ‘’a full investigation is under way to establish the full circumstances surrounding the death which is being treated as religiously prejudiced.”

link

Nothing to see here.
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03-27-2016, 12:23 AM #2
Alex
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I think its funny people actually watch BBC.  It's even funnier when people quote it like it has credibility.

"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"

~Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra)

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03-27-2016, 12:57 AM #3
Thunderian
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I think it's funny that, by calling into question the overall credibility of the news organisation that happened to be linked to, people can pretend that something never happened.  

Here's a link to a blog post about Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman of Glasgow Central Mosque's comments regarding Mumtaz Qadri's execution.

The blogger is Paul Salahuddin Armstrong, who is the co-director of the British Association of Muslims.

Is that good enough for you?
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03-27-2016, 02:51 AM #4
Alex
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(03-27-2016, 12:57 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  ...

Do you ever stop to question anything?

If you saw an article on CNN with your Sunday preacher praising child lovers would you see it for the bs it is?
Something tells me you wouldn't be posting it here on these forums.

The story is bs. The fact the source goes back to BBC rips away any and all credibility.


Continue to post these articles while out of the 1.7 billion Muslims in the world, 99.998% are peaceful. You just don't see violent Muslims in reality.


I will spare you a few dozen links with BBC lies. I don't want to introduce cognitive dissonance. Some can not survive without the matrix.

"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"

~Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra)

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03-27-2016, 02:57 AM #5
Thunderian
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So, for the record, you are denying that Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman ever said those things, or that this ever happened, simply because the BBC happened to be one of the organizations that reported it?

03-27-2016, 03:06 AM #6
Alex
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(03-27-2016, 02:57 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  So, for the record, you are denying that Imam Maulana Habib Ur Rehman ever said those things, or that this ever happened, simply because the BBC happened to be one of the organizations that reported it?

For the record no Muslim would say such things. If i even cared enough to look into it I'd want proof that hes a Muslim to begin with. Not some random dude pulled off the street and given a few $ to read a script to fulfill an agenda.

The fact it links back to BBC makes it a massive waste of my time.


There is a reason main stream media has zero credibility and its because of articles like that.

"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"

~Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra)

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03-27-2016, 03:16 AM #7
Thunderian
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You've already wasted more time arguing that this didn't happen than it would have cost you to read the article.

Let's see ... imams are preaching extremism, Muslims killing other Muslims for wishing Christians a happy Easter, young Muslims from every country and walk of life flocking to join the ISIS, and guys like you just keep saying, "nothing to see here."

Gee, I wonder what the trouble with Islam could be.
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03-27-2016, 03:40 AM #8
Alex
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(03-27-2016, 03:16 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  ...


"whoever kills a soul it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. " [5:32 Quran]


Those people you speak of are not Muslims.  But stay glued to that tv, clearly we can all see the benefits.



In hindsight, your lucky the tv is a liar.  if 1 in 4 humans (ie 1/4 of the planet is Muslim) were the way your tv painted them to be, you would have been pushing up daisies a long, long time go.

"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"

~Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (ra)

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03-27-2016, 04:03 AM #9
seekinheart
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(03-27-2016, 03:40 AM)Alex Wrote:  
(03-27-2016, 03:16 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  ...


"whoever kills a soul it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. " [5:32 Quran]


Those people you speak of are not Muslims.  But stay glued to that tv, clearly we can all see the benefits.



In hindsight, your lucky the tv is a liar.  if 1 in 4 humans (ie 1/4 of the planet is Muslim) were the way your tv painted them to be, you would have been pushing up daisies a long, long time go.

See that post to me - just reeks of arrogance, hatred and pride. Translation - if we wanted you dead you'd be dead.

Thunderian is right, you can't just undermine something simply because you have a conspiracy theory mindset and think everything is a charade -what, you think there is no middle ground in what is reported? You think every person who is a whistle blower is controlled opposition? Even huge media outlets - such as discovery which I believe were going to air a documentary on the franklin cover up which was later pulled, are not completely controlled. Or else why would they even be considering it. Hollywood recently created the spotlight film exposing catholic priests - rome is high on the elite hierarchy, by your logic we can't trust this - Your reasoning is so illogical and really the type of reasoning that discredits all truthers, assess the information first but don't generalize simply because of the company, it doesn't work that way.
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03-27-2016, 04:05 AM #10
Thunderian
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So you won't even engage on the topic, but instead just belittle me. You're like a Scimitar sock-puppet.

Gee, I wonder why Muslims find it so hard to get along with each other and the rest of the world?
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