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A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion (GoT SPOILERS)


03-24-2016, 11:06 AM #1
Loki
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This thread is for discussing the Song of Ice and Fire books and it will contain spoilers for all current seasons of the show Game of Thrones. If you aren't caught up on the show and don't want to be spoiled then stop reading.

If you haven't read the books but are caught up on the show then feel free to contribute or ask questions if you want to, but things might be slightly confusing because there are definitely differences.

All that out of the way I'll just open up the discussion with some questions about the books:

Do we think Jon Snow is really dead?

Do we think Stannis will ultimately meet the same fate that his character in the show did?

Who are your top 5 favorite characters?

Theories on Jon Snow's parentage?

Will you be watching the new season of the show despite the corresponding book not coming out until maybe the end of the year, or likely later?

What aspects of the show do you prefer over the book and vice versa?

I'll answer the questions later when I've got some time.

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan
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04-17-2016, 05:42 AM #2
Artful Revealer
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So we all know Jon Snow is a Targaryen, son to Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar.

But does anyone else here think that Tyrion is also a Targaryen? Son to Joanna Lannister and the Mad King?

Even though bananas, it seems to make a lot of sense.

Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew. - Gospel of Philip

04-18-2016, 11:17 AM #3
damien50
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(04-17-2016, 05:42 AM)Artful Revealer Wrote:  So we all know Jon Snow is a Targaryen, son to Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar.

But does anyone else here think that Tyrion is also a Targaryen? Son to Joanna Lannister and the Mad King?

Even though bananas, it seems to make a lot of sense.

Was the second hinted at?  I could possibly believe the first however.  Too bad Ned died before we could know anything

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

04-18-2016, 11:38 AM #4
Loki
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I'm not going to white out spoilers here, if the title isn't enough to make people who don't want show things possibly spoiled avert their eyes then I don't thing they deserve to not have things spoiled haha. However, if you're a book reader who is not caught up, the following might be spoilers, though it's mostly speculation anyway.

I've heard the Tyrion Targaryen theory before, but I'm not sure I really buy it. Not only does it seem like the only thing that ever kept Tyrion even slightly in his father's good graces is that he was of his blood and in ways reminded Tywin of himself, but also Tyrion doesn't possess the tell-tale Targaryen violet eyes or even pale blond/silver hair. These are the two qualities that make me doubt Jon Snow's parentage being half-Targaryen as well, but for Jon we at least believe that Northern traits have a tendency to overpower Southern traits in genetics. But there's no reason to believe that Lannister traits would overpower Targaryen traits. Had one of Tyrion's eyes been violet then I'd put much more credence in the theory, but his eyes are green and black/brown respectively.

If GRRM does end up writing it so that both Tyrion and Jon are Targaryens just so they can potentially ride one of Dany's dragons I'd be pretty upset with him for burying the lead so hard. He specifically makes a point through his story telling of letting us know certain characteristics of the Targaryen bloodline and then would have given neither of these Targaryen bastards any of those traits (pale blond hair, violet eyes, potential immunity to fire).

As for Dany's Dragon Riders, if we ever see them, I'd kind of like them to be Bran and Tyrion myself. GRRM loves cripples, and awarding both of them a dragon to ride into battle and defeat the Others with would be great, though perhaps unlikely.
This post was last modified: 04-18-2016, 11:39 AM by Loki.

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan
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04-18-2016, 11:51 AM #5
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I'm with Loki, I don't see Tyrion being a Targaryen, if he was - it would ruin the story.

I believe one Dragon is for Danerys, One for Jon Snow and the last is for Aegon when he finally appears.

I think Danerys/Jon Snow will Unite the South and fight the Walkers up North.

Fire vs Ice - South vs North


"If people don't want you to question something, that probably means you should question it." - Michel Templet

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04-19-2016, 10:30 AM #6
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GRRM has hinted at the vast lineage of the Starks and they were seemingly just as incredible as the Targaryen's, so it all seems plausible.

I'm personally happy that Catlyn died as she was annoying both the book and show.  Arya has become my favorite showing an almost religious devotion to become a faceless one.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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04-22-2016, 09:10 AM #7
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Alright, thanks for those insights. Agreed with Goku on Fire and Ice referring to the pending confrontation of White Walkers and Dragons, which is the most likely outcome after the North will be overrun by the undead. But Aegon (not a book reader) is he a son of Rhaegar as well? Where has he been if you're expecting him to appear in the show?

Re Tyrion son of Joanna and the Mad King.

I've read that, in the book, the Mad King fancied Tywin's wife, so this could be a good casus for the illegitimate son which is Tyrion. Some clues in the show do support this theory. Tywin's final words after Tyrion bolted him were: "You're no son of mine", which, granted, could simply mean Tywin disowned him for killing him, which, granted again, wouldn't be that unfair. Tongue 


But couple that to the conversation Tywin had with Tyrion where he denied his claim to Casterly Rock in which he said something in line of how the laws of men gave Tyrion the right to have the Lannister name (would be interesting to know what that law precisely is), and that he cannot prove that he is not his son. Why would he say this if he didn't know Tyrion was not his? It would also better explain the miserable relationship Tyrion had with his alleged father, whose causes seem to be more profound than Tyrion simply being a "halfman".

I don't see why Tyrion being of Targaryen descent would ruin the story line, but that could be a matter of taste. I find sense in this theory since the three main (good-hearted) protagonists would be united. It might even be the reason why GRRM decided to make Tyrion a dwarf, since it provides greater opportunity to develop a mystery of parentage which is completely different and just as unexpected, perhaps even more, as the one he used for Jon Snow. I don't exclude Bran to ride one of the dragons, but I'd sooner see him take control of Drogon, the black one, as a warg, for that one might prove to become uncontrollable, even for the mother of dragons in a struggle for the position of alpha or something.

I haven't nailbited for a show since ... ever I think. GoT makes me feel like a kid again. Either way, let's get season 6 going already.
This post was last modified: 04-22-2016, 09:59 AM by Artful Revealer. Edit Reason: grammar

Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given. He who has received something other than the Lord is still a Hebrew. - Gospel of Philip
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04-22-2016, 09:47 AM #8
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Aegon, appears in the books or at least someone who we're told is Aegon so let's hope it happens in the show now.

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)

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04-22-2016, 10:04 AM #9
The Zone
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Let's face it, the author has become fat and happy - pardon the pun. That said, thankfully HBO is moving forward and all we can do is wait and see. IMO. speculation is tough here in that they will be deviating from the story. Oddly, Martin is now talking of penning off shoots for other projects, yet he cannot seem to find a year or three to finish GOT.

Anyhow, great characters and unpredictability make this a fun show. They do a great job in getting you emotionally involved in a well crafted universe. I find myself taking the show, which is most certainly a fantasy escape, a bit serious at times. That's a good thing. Anyhow, thankfully, state side, we get a free preview with last season ran in it's entirety for the weekend on one provider. I have a way of timing subscriptions to take advantage of getting the complete show run but subscribing to a month towards the end of the season. I guess I am tight in that respect.

Yeah, I kinf of want to hurt Ramsey Bolten Big Grin

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04-22-2016, 11:08 AM #10
Loki
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(04-22-2016, 09:47 AM)Kung Fu Wrote:  Aegon, appears in the books or at least someone who we're told is Aegon so let's hope it happens in the show now.

*Possible spoilers for the show if they do end up including Aegon, though I don't think they will personally*



To expound a bit, Aegon (or the character we believe to be Aegon) is supposedly the son of Rhaegar and Elia Martell (Oberyn's sister). It is explained in the books that Varys was able to have Aegon smuggled away from his mother and left an orphan baby in his place, however, he could not save Aegon's sister. So when the Mountain showed up and killed Elia and bash her babies' brains in he actually only killed her daughter and a random orphan boy. This would make Aegon Dany's nephew, as Rhaegar was her older brother.

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan
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