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The Christian and church


03-23-2016, 01:28 PM #1
damien50
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I always carried a disdain for the ritual of going to church and the denizens that shuffled to and fro on Sundays, Monday's, Wednesday's, Thursday's, and so on not understanding the purpose of church.

Quote:Ephesians 4:11-16 KJVAnd he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

With the quote above, I find and think this to be the reason to attend the church but I'm left with questions from a social and biblical standpoint.

Is church a compulsory part of the Christian life or more of a tool to be used at will¿

What makes people feel the need to go to church?

These two questions will hopefully create a larger discussion on the sociological and biblical aspects of church.

So I leave one more question that I have found many Christians to be upset when asked. 

If you are left on a mountain solely with a bible of your choosing, is God still in your life or is a church on the mountain a requirement to maintain your Christianity?

I personally prefer the bible but many others answers tend to vary and lead to them not understanding what I asked.

Anyways I appreciate the responses that will hopefully come.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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03-23-2016, 01:35 PM #2
Scimitar
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may I eat popcorn, quietly, from the balcony view? Cool very good question Damien.

Scimi
This post was last modified: 03-23-2016, 01:36 PM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi
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03-23-2016, 01:38 PM #3
damien50
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(03-23-2016, 01:35 PM)Scimitar Wrote:  may I eat popcorn, quietly, from the balcony view?  Cool very good question Damien.

Scimi

Indulge me if you like from an Islamic perspective on going to mosque, surely everyone doesn't go because they have to. 

But I made pretzels and pizza in the balcony(Thy Unveiling made a great point about pizza)

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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03-23-2016, 01:38 PM #4
Todd
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(03-23-2016, 01:28 PM)damien50 Wrote:  I always carried a disdain for the ritual of going to church and the denizens that shuffled to and fro on Sundays, Monday's, Wednesday's, Thursday's, and so on not understanding the purpose of church.

Quote:Ephesians 4:11-16 KJVAnd he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

With the quote above, I find and think this to be the reason to attend the church but I'm left with questions from a social and biblical standpoint.

Is church a compulsory part of the Christian life or more of a tool to be used at will¿

What makes people feel the need to go to church?

These two questions will hopefully create a larger discussion on the sociological and biblical aspects of church.

So I leave one more question that I have found many Christians to be upset when asked. 

If you are left on a mountain solely with a bible of your choosing, is God still in your life or is a church on the mountain a requirement to maintain your Christianity?

I personally prefer the bible but many others answers tend to vary and lead to them not understanding what I asked.

Anyways I appreciate the responses that will hopefully come.

the concept of a "church" as a building with a pastor, that you become a "member" of and attend every week at the same time is not a biblical requirement.  Fellowship with other believers for encouragement, edification, and mutual submission (not submission to a hierarchy, but mutual with another person where you hold each other accountable to your own convictions) is, I believe, biblical and necessary.  How often and where is up to you.  Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered in his name that God's presence is there, so at least two people required.

Institutional Church creates demands and fosters formal leadership that leads to hierarchy and eventually distinction between clergy and lay people.  Something I believe that Jesus told his disciples shouldn't be in their case.   I'm not saying having a formal organization that owns a building is wrong, just stating that not matter how sincere and pure  the intentions of everyone involved eventually the organization and the building and the programs tend to become more important than the individual people.   Not always but more often than not.

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did
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03-23-2016, 01:43 PM #5
Scimitar
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(03-23-2016, 01:38 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Indulge me if you like from an Islamic perspective on going to mosque, surely everyone doesn't go because they have to. 

But I made pretzels and pizza in the balcony(Thy Unveiling made a great point about pizza)


It's good to gather for the sake of God.  Heart  Blush

Scimi
This post was last modified: 03-23-2016, 01:45 PM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi
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03-23-2016, 01:44 PM #6
damien50
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You already know a very basic description of the church I go to, we provide online exactly what is provided when you go in person. 

We have a pastor but the hierarchy ends there, attendance is preferred but not mandatory.  What is compulsory is learning the bible because as our pastor warns we may not always have a church.

Your statement makes me think TD Jakes or Joel Olsteen using the pulpit for glory and the passing of various agendas with the use of JESUS!!!!!!!(black pastor voice).

I don't really understand the whole church concept myself but it's like a catalytic converter to me at this point, worth a lot but not necessary.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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03-23-2016, 01:47 PM #7
Todd
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(03-23-2016, 01:43 PM)Scimitar Wrote:  
(03-23-2016, 01:38 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Indulge me if you like from an Islamic perspective on going to mosque, surely everyone doesn't go because they have to. 

But I made pretzels and pizza in the balcony(Thy Unveiling made a great point about pizza)


It's good to gather for the sake of God.  Heart  Blush

Scimi

Yep, that's the short, to the point version of what I was trying to say!

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did
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03-23-2016, 01:55 PM #8
damien50
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(03-23-2016, 01:47 PM)Todd Wrote:  
(03-23-2016, 01:43 PM)Scimitar Wrote:  
(03-23-2016, 01:38 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Indulge me if you like from an Islamic perspective on going to mosque, surely everyone doesn't go because they have to. 

But I made pretzels and pizza in the balcony(Thy Unveiling made a great point about pizza)


It's good to gather for the sake of God.  Heart  Blush

Scimi

Yep, that's the short, to the point version of what I was trying to say!

You both get front row seats to the show and vip service!!!

Expound on that for me though Scimi, I feel bad if everyone doesn't pay a wall of text to rival China.  You know I like perspective and the only Muslim I know is too busy getting drunk and high and having sex to give me any perspective of worth.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
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03-23-2016, 02:38 PM #9
Axiom
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Christ is the Physician of souls, and just as God has created for us medicines to heal our bodily ailments, so too has he prescribed for us the holy sacraments to bestow on us his healing and life-giving grace. The church (ecclesia) is likened therefore to a hospital where we are nourished with the holy prayers of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

"Woe to him who is alone when he falls, and doesn't have another to lift him up." (Ecclesiastes 4:10b)

 As they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks for it, and broke it. He gave to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”  He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, “All of you drink it,   for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins."
(Matthew 26:26-28)

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes... For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy way eats and drinks judgment to himself, if he doesn't discern the Lord's body." (1 Corinthians 11:26,29)

"Most certainly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don't have life in yourselves." (John 6:53)

"On the first day of the week, when the disciples were gathered together to break bread..." (Act 20:7a)

"On the Lord's day, gather yourselves together and break bread, give thanks, but first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure." (Didache 14:1)

This is the Apostolic faith, but there are those who trample the holy things underfoot because the broad way is much more appealing: "Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying! Who can listen to it?" (John 6:60)

03-23-2016, 02:48 PM #10
martin71
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As a Christian, I believe the greatest church you can attend is the one inside you. You can visit anytime day or night. When I first started reading about other people's "personal relationship with Jesus" I have to say, I thought what pompous nonsense! But now I think and feel differently. I talk to him in my head, tell him what's making me happy/sad, whatever, all that kind of stuff. To a non-believer, I know this will sound crazy. But it works for me.
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