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Blood sacrifice - atonement for sin?


02-10-2016, 03:25 PM #1
Sidhuriel
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Hello all Smile

I just mentioned I am taking a break from the religious discussions to ponder some important questions that have been raised for me the past week in the forum discussions.

But I would like to leave you all with a question for which I require answers and which I am going to ponder myself while on my break. I will then enjoy reading this when I get I hope Smile

Through the threads on Christianity; the blood of Christ-or the Lamb is mentioned as the Redeeming feature for mankind.  Because Jesus died on the cross-the rest of us is saved through God's grace. Through our own works we cannot reach heaven because we are tainted by sin; so a blameless Lamb takes our place in the shape of Christ being sacrificed not by man but by God Himself.

In the old testament we see that God requires sacrifices from Abraham as well; in the shape of his son that God turned into a lamb; and in various kinds of animal sacrifices. 

So this is to say that man-cannot attain salvation through his works; but rather through killing something else. A lamb or a person- Jesus in this case.

Now I happen to have been a satanist; and we offered things too in order to please our Gods and gain favours. So here I have a little problem.

Salvation = gained through the blood of Jesus on the cross?

Sounds like ''power is gained through killing a goat on a pentacle''.

To me; it has started to make much more sense that God inspires us through his prophets to do good; and through His commandments to avoid sin. We come to God by admitting we are sinners; and asking Him to guide our lives; and then He inspires us and we pray for Him to lead us on a straight path through reading His books, Laws and guidance.

It does not make sense to me that God kills someone or something else for me and then says ''here; I saved you and give you the holy spirit'' ; that sounds like ''here; I give you powers because you did a ritual''.

Occult. That's how it sounds to me.

But anyway; not wanting to derail my own thread: central question - why and how does blood sacrifice atone people for sin?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness
Only light can do that
Hate can't drive out hate
Only love can do that
Heart
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02-10-2016, 03:55 PM #2
sPEktrall
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Listen to this man.





Every act of sin and transgression is a breach in Gods law and, because God is perfectly just he must sentence accordingly.  Those sins are forever on record.  Think of it like this...   We have all broken the 10 commandments meaning we are all guilty before God according to HIS law.  If you stand in a court and are found guilty than a just judge is obligated by law to sentence you without ezception.  God is the same way...  What Jesus did was receive the penatly of sin(death) in your place.  He stood in the court room and took upon himself the just punishment you deserve so you could go free
  Now God doesnt deal with you as a criminal, but rather a son which you were originally created to be.  The sacrifices were a picture of the ultimate sacrfice to come which was Christ.  He and his work existed in the form of the levite system before the fullness of the time for him to be incarnate.  He died and received the penalty for sin in your place.

Prov 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.
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02-10-2016, 04:11 PM #3
Yahda
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From what I can understand the aroma is pleasing to God for whatever reasons. Why ? That I do not know, but as far as the sacrifice itself God basically said he didn't speak with Moses concerning a sacrifice. He even went as far to say " if I was hungry I wouldn't tell you, everything already belongs to me".  After each and every time God made such a statement he instructed us to keep his laws and statues emphasizing the importance of keeping law obeying His voice, not a sacrifice. 

Hosea 6:6 For in loyal love I delight not in sacrifice and in knowledge of God rather than whole burnt offerings.

God tells us in Hosea 3:4 It is because for a long time the people of Israel will dwell without a king, without a prince, WITHOUT A SACRIFICE, without a pillar and without a Ephod and teraphim statue Afterward the people of Israel will come back to look for the Lord their God and for DAVID their king in the FINAL part of the days.

I'll have to find the scriptures but God says when he collect Israel back from the nations in his wrath the aroma will be pleasing to him. Which mean his wrath will be the ultimate sacrifice !

Ezekiel 20:41 Because of the pleasing aroma, I will take pleasure in you when I bring you out from the people and collect you together from which the lands you have been scattered and I will be sanctified among you before the eyes of the nation.

Trust God is going to get his sacrifice. He mentioned a few of them in the final days, but for right now. Love, keep his laws, learn his laws, and obey his voice....
This post was last modified: 02-10-2016, 08:41 PM by Yahda.

~Yahda
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02-10-2016, 07:44 PM #4
Vytas
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(02-10-2016, 03:25 PM)Sidhuriel Wrote:  Hello all Smile

I just mentioned I am taking a break from the religious discussions to ponder some important questions that have been raised for me the past week in the forum discussions.

But I would like to leave you all with a question for which I require answers and which I am going to ponder myself while on my break. I will then enjoy reading this when I get I hope Smile

Through the threads on Christianity; the blood of Christ-or the Lamb is mentioned as the Redeeming feature for mankind.  Because Jesus died on the cross-the rest of us is saved through God's grace. Through our own works we cannot reach heaven because we are tainted by sin; so a blameless Lamb takes our place in the shape of Christ being sacrificed not by man but by God Himself.

In the old testament we see that God requires sacrifices from Abraham as well; in the shape of his son that God turned into a lamb; and in various kinds of animal sacrifices. 

So this is to say that man-cannot attain salvation through his works; but rather through killing something else. A lamb or a person- Jesus in this case.

Now I happen to have been a satanist; and we offered things too in order to please our Gods and gain favours. So here I have a little problem.

Salvation = gained through the blood of Jesus on the cross?

Sounds like ''power is gained through killing a goat on a pentacle''.

To me; it has started to make much more sense that God inspires us through his prophets to do good; and through His commandments to avoid sin. We come to God by admitting we are sinners; and asking Him to guide our lives; and then He inspires us and we pray for Him to lead us on a straight path through reading His books, Laws and guidance.

It does not make sense to me that God kills someone or something else for me and then says ''here; I saved you and give you the holy spirit'' ; that sounds like ''here; I give you powers because you did a ritual''.

Occult. That's how it sounds to me.

But anyway; not wanting to derail my own thread: central question - why and how does blood sacrifice atone people for sin?

There is a difference though...You cant compare animal sacrifices which was not only symbolical but also a remainder of how imperfect we are...To a Jesus willingly done selfless act...You didn't gained any power, neither Jesus death was anyhow your decision...I wont comment further on "God kills someone" If that is your perception, i wonder from where did you get it, because im sure its not bible...

Truth is precious it's guarded by God
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02-10-2016, 08:38 PM #5
Trenton
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(02-10-2016, 03:55 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Every act of sin and transgression is a breach in Gods law and, because God is perfectly just he must sentence accordingly.  Those sins are forever on record.  Think of it like this...   We have all broken the 10 commandments meaning we are all guilty before God according to HIS law.  If you stand in a court and are found guilty than a just judge is obligated by law to sentence you without ezception.  God is the same way...

I agree most humans have broken more than a few of his commandments.

Why though, set us up purely for failure? Even the best of us cannot escape the simplest sin such as envy. Or pride.

I accept whatever happens to me, happens. However I will not stand by without questioning rationally these things. In the most perfect of situations. Such as, Adam and Eve in the garden, freshly created, and guidance provided. Human fell from "Grace" as easy as can be.

That should disturb anyone. It makes no sense. Blood sacrifice sounds wrong no matter what label one puts on it. Satanic ritual, native tribes, or even Jesus Christ dying.

All sounds like vampirism to me.

Edit --- not to forget we kill living matter, both plants and animals to live. Maybe God need us to slay so he can live. Why when plants eat sunlight, he create us to kill and devour?
This post was last modified: 02-10-2016, 08:41 PM by Trenton.

I know you're coming in the night like a thief, but I've had some time alone, to hone my lying technique. I know you think that I'm someone you can trust, but I'm scared I'll get scared, and I swear I'll try to nail you back up. So do you think that we could work out a sign, so I'll know it's you and that it's over so I won't even try? I know you're coming for the people like me. We've all got wood and nails, turned out in a hate factory.

02-10-2016, 08:44 PM #6
sPEktrall
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(02-10-2016, 08:38 PM)Trenton Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 03:55 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Every act of sin and transgression is a breach in Gods law and, because God is perfectly just he must sentence accordingly.  Those sins are forever on record.  Think of it like this...   We have all broken the 10 commandments meaning we are all guilty before God according to HIS law.  If you stand in a court and are found guilty than a just judge is obligated by law to sentence you without ezception.  God is the same way...

I agree most humans have broken more than a few of his commandments.

Why though, set us up purely for failure? Even the best of us cannot escape the simplest sin such as envy. Or pride.

I accept whatever happens to me, happens. However I will not stand by without questioning rationally these things. In the most perfect of situations. Such as, Adam and Eve in the garden, freshly created, and guidance provided. Human fell from "Grace" as easy as can be.

That should disturb anyone. It makes no sense. Blood sacrifice sounds wrong no matter what label one puts on it. Satanic ritual, native tribes, or even Jesus Christ dying.

All sounds like vampirism to me.

Rationally speaking,

How were Adam and Eve set up for failure?  They were created upright and without a nature subservient to sin and had the means and capability to serve God perfectly.  They had one rule in the entire garden and that was to not eat of one tree.  Even if we think about it from a rational mind the odds seem in their favor.

Prov 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.

02-10-2016, 09:13 PM #7
Trenton
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(02-10-2016, 08:44 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Rationally speaking,

How were Adam and Eve set up for failure?  They were created upright and without a nature subservient to sin and had the means and capability to serve God perfectly.  They had one rule in the entire garden and that was to not eat of one tree.  Even if we think about it from a rational mind the odds seem in their favor.

Agreed. However, we all know that's not how it worked out for them.

I know you're coming in the night like a thief, but I've had some time alone, to hone my lying technique. I know you think that I'm someone you can trust, but I'm scared I'll get scared, and I swear I'll try to nail you back up. So do you think that we could work out a sign, so I'll know it's you and that it's over so I won't even try? I know you're coming for the people like me. We've all got wood and nails, turned out in a hate factory.

02-10-2016, 09:23 PM #8
sPEktrall
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(02-10-2016, 09:13 PM)Trenton Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 08:44 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Rationally speaking,

How were Adam and Eve set up for failure?  They were created upright and without a nature subservient to sin and had the means and capability to serve God perfectly.  They had one rule in the entire garden and that was to not eat of one tree.  Even if we think about it from a rational mind the odds seem in their favor.

Agreed. However, we all know that's not how it worked out for them.

So God gave them a more than fair chance and they blew it?

Prov 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.

02-10-2016, 09:36 PM #9
Trenton
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(02-10-2016, 09:23 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 09:13 PM)Trenton Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 08:44 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Rationally speaking,

How were Adam and Eve set up for failure?  They were created upright and without a nature subservient to sin and had the means and capability to serve God perfectly.  They had one rule in the entire garden and that was to not eat of one tree.  Even if we think about it from a rational mind the odds seem in their favor.

Agreed. However, we all know that's not how it worked out for them.

So God gave them a more than fair chance and they blew it?

Why does he need to give us a "chance" rather than creating us to be totally subservient. If God is all powerful, surely an perfect creation would be no problem for him. Just God, sounds like he set us up for failure. No way arguing that. 

How can he create a man and a woman, to be obedient, then a serpent talks them into doing thenONE thing he asks them not to do?

Logistically, explain how God isn't a tyrant. "You messed up, because I don't like what you done. Suffer now."

Whycput the tree of knowledge there at all? Why allow the serpent into the garden? Why createna man and woman who have the ABILITY  to disobey him? Does God get a kick out of it?

I know you're coming in the night like a thief, but I've had some time alone, to hone my lying technique. I know you think that I'm someone you can trust, but I'm scared I'll get scared, and I swear I'll try to nail you back up. So do you think that we could work out a sign, so I'll know it's you and that it's over so I won't even try? I know you're coming for the people like me. We've all got wood and nails, turned out in a hate factory.

02-10-2016, 09:42 PM #10
sPEktrall
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(02-10-2016, 09:36 PM)Trenton Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 09:23 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 09:13 PM)Trenton Wrote:  
(02-10-2016, 08:44 PM)sPEktrall Wrote:  Rationally speaking,

How were Adam and Eve set up for failure?  They were created upright and without a nature subservient to sin and had the means and capability to serve God perfectly.  They had one rule in the entire garden and that was to not eat of one tree.  Even if we think about it from a rational mind the odds seem in their favor.

Agreed. However, we all know that's not how it worked out for them.

So God gave them a more than fair chance and they blew it?

Why does he need to give us a "chance" rather than creating us to be totally subservient. If God is all powerful, surely an perfect creation would be no problem for him. Just God, sounds like he set us up for failure. No way arguing that. 

How can he create a man and a woman, to be obedient, then a serpent talks them into doing thenONE thing he asks them not to do?

Logistically, explain how God isn't a tyrant. "You messed up, because I don't like what you done. Suffer now."

Whycput the tree of knowledge there at all? Why allow the serpent into the garden? Why createna man and woman who have the ABILITY  to disobey him? Does God get a kick out of it?

If a man wants something to be totally subservient to him he creates a robot that has no ability for independent and free thought.  Is that how God should have made us?

Prov 15:7 The lips of the wise disperse knowledge: but the heart of the foolish doeth not so.
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