(02-10-2016, 11:31 AM)The Creeper Wrote: I think this thread asks a really good question, one I would like to know the answer to.
Some Christians have claimed that Islam isn't true because it is a "works based religion", the truth is the mercy of Allah is far more important than our deeds, we are good for the sake of Allah because that is how he would want us to be (and we want to be how he wants us to be).
These Christians say that good deeds only come after they have recieved the holy spirit. If that is the case why do some Christians later fall from grace if they are filled with the holy spirit and do bad things? and why do non-Christians do good deeds if they don't have the holy spirit?
When I first heard the Qur'an recited it moved me to tears. Its still can sometimes, I feel powerful emotions when I read that book. Is that the same as what you are describing in the OP?
There is another question I would like to ask, but I feel I should give some context first. Christianity is the dominant religion where I live (England), I could make a case for pagans, athiests and satanists, but because of the massive church in my town and the history of this country, i'm saying its a Christian country for now. My mum's side of the family is Christian and I tried to conform to these beliefs when I was younger. I liked the message Jesus (pbuh) gave us, about forgiveness and helping others and loving everyone, but I really struggled to make sense of the trinity.
Eventually, I decided that the Father was the top God, he was there before the other two. The holy spirit was his servant who carried out his will in the creation while he existed outside of it and I thought Jesus was possesed by God, he wasn't able to carry out his own will but only the will of the Father. Just to prove my point that Jesus and The Father's will were not always aligned, here is a verse.
(Matthew26:39) Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
My question is, if I come from a Christian family and a Christian land and I used to pray to Jesus so he could talk to God for me. But now I just talk to God directly because I reverted to Islam, do I still have the holy spirit?
If you want this to be a Christian only thread I will respect that, your OP just got me thinking so I thought I would ask.
Nah man, Its cool.
I personally have never felt anything like this feeling before. It was a feeling of like electricity running through my body with powerful emotion of praising God, it was so strange, otherworldly but not frightening actually like a burning passion coursing through the body, the closest thing to it is goosebumps but goosebumps are sort of a dull feeling to it, this is much more fuller and just like nothing can harm you and its as if you can feel some living thing tingling in your body moving through your body, especially in your head, it fills up your head and takes away any sort of anxiety you have, Ive had goosebumps but they never travel to my head, its profound, your head is like buzzing I dont know its really indescribable it is like a feeling of pure joy and sort of ecstacy, its not really solemn its like something else you have no control over.
I think that perhaps this is the affirmation of the holy spirit of truth?
Yeh it doesnt mean alot in terms of becoming a better christian but it definitely stuck with me. Maybe God is using the holy spirit more on those that need it more.
As far as like islam and christianity, the holy spirit I dont think causes all good deeds, thats our moral conscience and how much of one you have, the holy spirit however can change a persons sinful nature and renew or improve that moral conscience I think as we no longer have our own morals but we are guided by God's.
The trinity can be confusing, I don't deny, I have struggled with it previously among other things - here is a great article by william lane craig a well respected theologian.
As far as christ and that verse, off the top of my head, I believe christ became fully human and was fully divine and therefore had human temptations, that he overcame as we are to overcome, this is proved in that the Bible tells us the devil tempted christ, after his 40 day and 40 night fast.
Its not true that one can go on a raping murdering spree and be saved, one has to have a truly repentant heart to be saved. If someone concludes they have done what they want and will be saved anyway they are wrong, because God knows the heart and someone who is worshiping for there own self gain, is not loving God or doing his will and therefore will be punished accordingly, if however they are repentant and fear God truly, then that is different, but no true christian would act like that in the first place, just as you may say no true Muslim would blow up a city.
I do not think that one can outweigh there good with bad enough for God to forgive them, consider a truly repentant serial killer such as david berkowitz who is now the son of hope rather than the son of sam.