#Login Register
The Vigilant Citizen Forums
Israel-God's Chosen People


02-04-2016, 11:04 AM #1
Lisa
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,935 Likes Received:2168
Israel-God's Chosen People;

The reason I believe that Israel is God's chosen people is because the Bible tells us so in Genesis. 
God made a covenant with Abraham and all Abraham's descendant's through Isaac that He will be their God. Abraham did have other sons, his oldest, Ishmael, was not included in the covenant with God. Abraham wanted him to be but God told him that His covenant was with Isaac-the child of promise. The promise meaning that God told Abraham and Sarah who had no children, that they would have a son. Abraham and Sarah were getting older, so they decided that maybe God wanted them to come up with this son themselves and so they decided that Abraham should have a son with Sarah's maid Hagar. So, Ishmael was born. However, Ishmael wasn't the son of promise. God didn't need for Sarah and Abraham to come up with a plan to produce a son, God had it covered, all they were supposed to do is trust God.
 Because God was the One who had the plan, and He was the One who was going to bring it to pass. And God did, when Abraham was 100 and Sarah 90, she conceived and they had a son-Issac. Only God could do that-which is the point btw-and Issac thus became the child of promise. 

Later, Ishmael was sent away for mocking as Sarah didn't want he or his mom around anymore. Abraham inquired of God what he should do and God told him to do as Sarah requested and that He would make Ishmael his own nation because of Abraham, but He stressed that Isaac was the child through which His covenant will pass to. Then the covenant went to Jacob, also called Israel. Jacob being the younger son, and that wasn't done either, the younger over the older.....Seems to me God does things the way He does them, and they are not our ways.

God also gave them some land that is Abraham's through Isaac forever. Now, God did tell them that if they didn't follow His rules they will lose the land, and multiple times in Israel's history the Israelites have been carted off into slavery and taken out of the land. This is true. But they have returned to the land and inhabitated it again. Even in the land, there were good kings that followed God and helped the people follow the Lord and there were bad kings who didn't follow God and helped the people sin against God with idols and such. And Israel was warned by God many times through His prophets but they hated those men. 

When Jesus came, the Jews/Israelites didn't recognize Him as God. They were waiting for a different sort of savior, not a savior of sins but to save them from the government, from the world.They didn't like the things He said and they had a hard time understanding what He was saying as He talked in parables a lot. So, the Pharisees conspired to have Jesus killed, but what they didn't know was that was all God's plan anyway and Jesus allowed HImself to be killed because it was God's plan after all. When the Jews rejected Jesus then they lost their land again and they broke with God....again.

The Bible tells us that this break with Him, is for a short time, because His plan included saving not just the Jews, but also Gentiles as well. Which is why God told Abraham that many peoples would be blessed through him. God is letting the world come into His covenant to be their God too, BUT they have to believe they are sinners, repent and believe on Jesus Christ to be saved. That is the Good News. 

Now, since the Jews don't believe any of this, they don't really know God anymore. And they really are just following whatever they want. But, God is still their God you see, He made that covenant and God is faithful even when we are not, which is why He always dealt with Israel and always wanted them to return to Him. And, God has said that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, that is when all people who are to believe, believe, then ALL ISRAEL will be saved. And they will know God again and once again be His people!!

And I do believe that the people who call themselves Jews and who live in Israel are God's chosen people still. I don't believe they are fake Jews but they don't know God anymore, they rejected Jesus.I think they are God's people and that God brought them back into the land. It took a really bad time for this to be accomplished, but I believe God is the One who accomplished this because He said that the Jews would come back into the land. And what God wants-happens! I also believe that satan the ruler of this world, is pretty unhappy with this. He lies about Israel, thought I'm sure they aren't totally blameless (no one is) but I think he hates them being back in their land because it proves God is true. That's the thing about Israel, they testify that there really is a God and He really has a chosen people. 



This is my belief through reading the Bible. You can share what you believe but there will be two rules....
1.) I just want to hear why you believe what you believe. No copy/pasting of others words. What do you think and why do you think it, in your own words.

2.)NO links to other websites or links to articles about Israel/Palestine. You can say you read it at such and such (like I said I read it in the Bible) but no links.There is another thread that already has that stuff in there, I don't want to go there. We all have our websites we like to get news from and we think are real and true sources, and maybe they are to you but not to others. We all go to the websites we like because they agree with our thinking, so I think we can leave them out of this, and just discus what we think/believe. Anyone can google whatever is being said anyway to discover for themselves. Have a good day Smile

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  1John 4:1

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8
The following 4 users Like Lisa's post:
  • Floss, MissMiami, Sidhuriel, riscy

02-04-2016, 12:25 PM #2
Floss
***
Marshall
Status: Offline Posts:275 Likes Received:306
I love God
This post was last modified: 03-18-2016, 05:05 AM by Floss.
The following 6 users Like Floss's post:
  • drfinklestein, ChloeBlue, Freetoday, Thy Unveiling, The Creeper, Goku

02-04-2016, 12:59 PM #3
Lisa
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,935 Likes Received:2168
(02-04-2016, 12:25 PM)Floss Wrote:  there are 2 claims that i get really annoyed when hearing it
1. israel is god choosen people
2. everyone is born a muslim

if that's the case then god would've only created the country of israel and muslim countries, but is that so? no
give me a break and stop putting god in your small box. if you look around, everything is evolving, advancing, expansion. if god created this earth, do you think he just limited himself to care for israel and muslim only? this is why i hate the existence of religion, they are all egocentric. 

'my religion is right, yours is wrong'
'my god is better/more powerful than your god'

god will never claim such things, stop putting your words/emotion onto him. at the end of the day, no one know for sure as they were claimed. it's all beliefs vs beliefs
i don't believe god intended to stay in one place, but rather spread throughout his creation. he wanted to be acknowledge not limited. 

if you came up with a badass invention, do you want everyone to know you're the author? some of you might say no, but most people will say hell yeh

stop claiming god for yourself because he loved everyone the same not just YOU.

edit; the world will be a better place if everyone just believe in god and not religion, everyone will walk this earth knowing god existed and will live in harmony without being under any denomination

Thank you Floss for your reply Smile

If you think I've said that the Jews are God's chosen people because I'm Jewish, then you're wrong. I'm a Christian.

I don't believe all people are born muslim either but the muslims sure do. 

You kinda missed the point I was trying to make about why Israel is God's chosen people-they testify to there being a God-One God-not many.  They were supposed to live how He wanted them to live and be His people. But often times they blew it. He however kept with them turning them back to Himself. 

God involves Himself with all creation and in the NT He does include ALL people in salvation-including Jews and muslims Smile

I suppose it does look like we are arguing over whose God is better. I just think we are debating the truth. There is only one truth-whose got that truth? Why is what the other person saying a lie? That is hard to grasp sometimes and I can see where it sounds like my God is better than your god.

God isn't limited. But He did have one limit on salvation. Salvation comes through no one else but Jesus. I think that's what many people don't like-that God has that limit on how someone can come to Him. We'd all like to come how we'd like but that isn't so.

The problem is God did say He's the creator but there is a liar out there lying about God. He's the one who puts out lies and half truths to deceive people so they can't come to God in the way God wants. It's a bit like the serpent telling Eve "Are you really going to die?" Satan tells "God loves everyone there are multiple ways to Him." When there is only the one way.

I agree God loves the world and He doesn't want any to perish!! 

But the world has no way of becoming a better place on its own because of sin. Everyone sins and for that reason the world will never and can never get better on its own. Even if we topple religion or government-there will still be sin! The only way to change sin is through the blood of Jesus-that's it. And then it takes all your life to change you to be like Jesus. 

Hope my reply helps Smile

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  1John 4:1

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8
The following 2 users Like Lisa's post:
  • Claire Rousseau, MissMiami

02-04-2016, 01:09 PM #4
Tarikko
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,790 Likes Received:9278
LOL

"God's" chosen people who don't even believe in Him, insult Him, kill His Prophets and cause corruption in the land.

Makes perfect sense!!

This is still unanswered Lisa Sad


And I am changing my signature just to remind you of 9/11 whenever you see my name... since you were complaining earlier.. i thought what the heck Big Grin


Israeli Crimes (But not limited to)


Land grabbing, colonization of Palestinian land; confiscations of property; 
forced expulsions; ethnic cleansing; no right of return; apartheid; terrorism; murders; 
mass murders; using white phosphorus in populated areas; discrimination and unequal 
treatment; torture; collective punishment; punishing families because of actions of one 
member; bulldozing homes and then stealing Red Cross-provided tents and emergency supplies; 
demolition of homes; making it difficult or impossible for Palestinians to obtain building 
permits; separation walls; checkpoints; blockades; discriminatory laws and unjust courts; 
Jewish-only roads built on Palestinian territory; Palestinian-only buses in West Bank; 
hogging water resources; restricting freedom of press in West Bank; restriction of exports 
of agricultural and industrial exports from Gaza; restriction of humanitarian aid into Gaza; 
blocked the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) from accessing badly wounded and dead civilians for several days; depriving Gaza of adequate electrical power, food, medicine, water, cooking gas, fuel and medical care;

discriminatory land ownership laws favoring Jews; destroying orchards; Israeli authorities 
took inadequate legal action against criminal Israeli settlers; failure to see to the 
physical needs of protected persons in occupied territories; destroying cisterns; turning 
springs owned by the indigenous population into tourist attractions; illegal transfer of 
the occupier's population into occupied territories; illegal occupier-only settlements on 
occupied territory; harvesting organs from dead prisoners w/o the families' permission at 
The National Institute of Forensic Medicine at Abu Kabir by Dr. Yehuda Hiss and associates; 
mistreatment of children; unlawful detention; no freedom of peaceful assembly; no freedom of
travel; throwing stun grenades into mosques; bulldozing Mosques; canceled peace talks because their enemy signed some international human rights conventions, joined some UN human rights agencies, signed a unity agreement, recognized Israel, threatened to take their case to the ICC; 'price tag' attacks, Jewish vandals hit mosque and church and threaten Christians; got so angered by the Palestinian unity government that they are building more illegal 
Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian soil; later announced thousands more illegal 
settlements as revenge because THEY themselves broke off peace talks; abducted hundreds
of Palestinians after 3 Jewish teenagers went missing in the occupied territories; kicked
down doors to homes of innocent Palestinians' homes and took them over, and killed several 
Palestinian teens; construction of a separation wall that may isolate farmers from 
fields they have cultivated for centuries; demolished homes of two Palestinian murder 
suspects even before apprehending them, but did not demolish homes of prominent Jewish rabbi's family, even though three of his children and grandchildren confessed to murdering a 
Palestinian kid; indiscriminately attacked Gaza with air strikes killing over 2000 people, 
mostly civilians, with huge bombs that can level entire neighborhoods; and shelled kids playing 


Regards,  Smile
This post was last modified: 02-04-2016, 01:11 PM by Tarikko.


“The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.”


― Thomas Carlyle, On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History






02-04-2016, 01:22 PM #5
Lisa
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,935 Likes Received:2168
(02-04-2016, 01:09 PM)Tarikko Wrote:  LOL

"God's" chosen people who don't even believe in Him, insult Him, kill His Prophets and cause corruption in the land.

Makes perfect sense!!

This is still unanswered Lisa Sad


And I am changing my signature just to remind you of 9/11 whenever you see my name... since you were complaining earlier.. i thought what the heck Big Grin


Israeli Crimes (But not limited to)


Land grabbing, colonization of Palestinian land; confiscations of property; 
forced expulsions; ethnic cleansing; no right of return; apartheid; terrorism; murders; 
mass murders; using white phosphorus in populated areas; discrimination and unequal 
treatment; torture; collective punishment; punishing families because of actions of one 
member; bulldozing homes and then stealing Red Cross-provided tents and emergency supplies; 
demolition of homes; making it difficult or impossible for Palestinians to obtain building 
permits; separation walls; checkpoints; blockades; discriminatory laws and unjust courts; 
Jewish-only roads built on Palestinian territory; Palestinian-only buses in West Bank; 
hogging water resources; restricting freedom of press in West Bank; restriction of exports 
of agricultural and industrial exports from Gaza; restriction of humanitarian aid into Gaza; 
blocked the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) from accessing badly wounded and dead civilians for several days; depriving Gaza of adequate electrical power, food, medicine, water, cooking gas, fuel and medical care;

discriminatory land ownership laws favoring Jews; destroying orchards; Israeli authorities 
took inadequate legal action against criminal Israeli settlers; failure to see to the 
physical needs of protected persons in occupied territories; destroying cisterns; turning 
springs owned by the indigenous population into tourist attractions; illegal transfer of 
the occupier's population into occupied territories; illegal occupier-only settlements on 
occupied territory; harvesting organs from dead prisoners w/o the families' permission at 
The National Institute of Forensic Medicine at Abu Kabir by Dr. Yehuda Hiss and associates; 
mistreatment of children; unlawful detention; no freedom of peaceful assembly; no freedom of
travel; throwing stun grenades into mosques; bulldozing Mosques; canceled peace talks because their enemy signed some international human rights conventions, joined some UN human rights agencies, signed a unity agreement, recognized Israel, threatened to take their case to the ICC; 'price tag' attacks, Jewish vandals hit mosque and church and threaten Christians; got so angered by the Palestinian unity government that they are building more illegal 
Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian soil; later announced thousands more illegal 
settlements as revenge because THEY themselves broke off peace talks; abducted hundreds
of Palestinians after 3 Jewish teenagers went missing in the occupied territories; kicked
down doors to homes of innocent Palestinians' homes and took them over, and killed several 
Palestinian teens; construction of a separation wall that may isolate farmers from 
fields they have cultivated for centuries; demolished homes of two Palestinian murder 
suspects even before apprehending them, but did not demolish homes of prominent Jewish rabbi's family, even though three of his children and grandchildren confessed to murdering a 
Palestinian kid; indiscriminately attacked Gaza with air strikes killing over 2000 people, 
mostly civilians, with huge bombs that can level entire neighborhoods; and shelled kids playing 


Regards,  Smile

Maybe tarriko you should just change your name to 9/11? Haha! 

Yes I know they do that-but I did explain they don't follow God because they rejected Jesus. They will know God again though! Smile

As to the other what is it you want me to do with that? I'm not sure what you expect.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  1John 4:1

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8

02-04-2016, 01:51 PM #6
damien50
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:1,384 Likes Received:2323
Wouldn't be better to say God's covenant with the Jews is unfinished/still in effect.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
The following 1 user Likes damien50's post:
  • Artful Revealer

02-04-2016, 02:01 PM #7
Lisa
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,935 Likes Received:2168
(02-04-2016, 01:51 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Wouldn't be better to say God's covenant with the Jews is unfinished/still in effect.

Then saying they are God's chosen people you mean? But they are His chosen people. He chose them from all them people's even though they weren't that many. I don't have a problem with them being His chosen people...

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  1John 4:1

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8

02-04-2016, 02:07 PM #8
damien50
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:1,384 Likes Received:2323
(02-04-2016, 02:01 PM)Lisa Wrote:  
(02-04-2016, 01:51 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Wouldn't be better to say God's covenant with the Jews is unfinished/still in effect.

Then saying they are God's chosen people you mean? But they are His chosen people. He chose them from all them people's even though they weren't that many. I don't have a problem with them being His chosen people...

At this point it's about the covenant, they are no better or worse than the gentiles.  We aren't in the old testament anymore.  I get what you're saying, I'm not really even questioning you, just putting things into perspective.

The Continuation of the Truth

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJV For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord . [9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
The following 2 users Like damien50's post:
  • X-Maverick, MissMiami

02-04-2016, 02:08 PM #9
Kung Fu
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,723 Likes Received:9565
So how does it feel that you're not one of God's chosen people, Lisa?

Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu alaihi wasalam) said:

"My similitude and that of the life of this world is that of a traveler who took a rest at mid-day under a shade of a tree and then left it."       (Ahmad, at-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah and al-Hakim)


02-04-2016, 02:12 PM #10
Lisa
*****
Chaplain
Status: Offline Posts:3,935 Likes Received:2168
(02-04-2016, 02:07 PM)damien50 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016, 02:01 PM)Lisa Wrote:  
(02-04-2016, 01:51 PM)damien50 Wrote:  Wouldn't be better to say God's covenant with the Jews is unfinished/still in effect.

Then saying they are God's chosen people you mean? But they are His chosen people. He chose them from all them people's even though they weren't that many. I don't have a problem with them being His chosen people...

At this point it's about the covenant, they are no better or worse than the gentiles.  We aren't in the old testament anymore.  I get what you're saying, I'm not really even questioning you, just putting things into perspective.
 
You can question me if you want. Yes it is about God's covenant right now and not about them. Sort of like Christians being saved by grace and not of themselves. Smile

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.  1John 4:1

Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8