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CONCEPT OF GOD


06-15-2015, 08:17 PM #1
celle76
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As a muslim (one who submits to the will of God) I am constantly reminded of the divine attributes of God from the Quran. Muslims are given 99 names or dive attributes to understand who our Creator is (Allah being the greatest of those names). Through these attributes we come closer to understanding the Uniqueness of God. A few examples (remember there are 99 mentioned in the Quran and each has in-depth descriptions) I will just touch the surface...

AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.

AL QUDDUS (The Holy) The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries

AL MUHAYMIN (The Protector) The One who witnesses the saying and deeds of His creatures.


**** it is conceivable for man to be characterized (by these names) to the extent that they be spoken of him, even though this is done in a fashion different from the application of (these) names to God****

What is your concept of God if you have one, if you don't, why not....feel free to drop a thought.

assalamu alaikum...![b][b][/b][/b]
This post was last modified: 06-15-2015, 08:37 PM by celle76.

06-15-2015, 08:46 PM #2
Krixus
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I come from a devoted Christian family, to my eyes, my mom is a saint, she taught me everything I needed to know, and she always respected my doubts and questions regarding religion. Way too many inconsistencies in their teachings if I may say... so when I was old enough I took the time to researcn and learn as much as I could about these abrahamic religions, from that, I have to say that muslims, seem to follow their religion in the most devoted, respectful and humble way Ive ever seen.... their submission to God has no comparison in our modern world..... I also attended a few gnostic meetings.... From all these I had to say, that I feel sorry for Christianity and their followers, good, humble people who are in most cases deceived by the Elites, warmongers, pagans, child abusers and so on, who are infiltrated in the highest ranks of this religion. I feel sorry for the muslims and the horrific existence we have brought upon them, through the propaganda and manipulation that comes from the zionists leaders of these world.... now jews....oh Jews Jews Jews, there is no difference in the Nazi way to see themselves as the perfect race, or the zionist jews who believe themselves are the chosen ones. ( Chosen by who we may ask ) A race chosen by "god" himself  Dodgy. where a life of any of them, worth a 1000 of ours.

In conclusion, God, the Architect of this so called reality, dwells beyond our insignificant existence, no human in flesh and bone could have the ability to even grasp the real concept of God.... let alone say they understand him/her or his plans for humanity ( if there is any )
This post was last modified: 06-15-2015, 08:49 PM by Krixus.

06-15-2015, 08:52 PM #3
celle76
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(06-15-2015, 08:46 PM)Krixus Wrote:  In conclusion, God, the Architect of this so called reality, dwells beyond our insignificant existence, no human in flesh and bone could have the ability to even grasp the real concept of God.... let alone say they understand him/her or his plans for humanity ( if there is any )


Existence

Things may exist at three levels: If they are sighted they have original true existence; if they are imagined
by us (i.e. seen by the eye of the mind) they have formative, acknowledged existence; and if they are
expressed in words (i.e. verbally) they have verbal referential existence.
Verbal referential existence expresses the formative acknowledged existence that embodies the original
true existence.
If things were not sighted they would not have been imagined, and if they had not been imagined they
would not have been acknowledged by the human being and hence not expressed in words.

The Word, the Knowledge, and the Known

These three things, though ostensibly different, are identical and parallel; each one has its specific
characteristics, and so are the name, the named, and the naming.
God’s name is Allah; the named, Glory be to Him, is the Exalted Being; as for the naming, either it has
been done by the people or by Him, and in either case the name has been known and acknowledged since
eternity. When Allah inspired the people to utter His name, the verbal existence was thus established; His
Name is eternal, as far as the formative acknowledged existence is concerned because it has been known to
Him since eternity, but as far as the verbal existence is concerned it is incidental when it is uttered by the
people.

Divisions of the Known

Verbal referential existence leads necessarily to the formative acknowledged existence. The word (Allah)
connotes God’s existence in minds; any word denotes a Known that is divided as follows:
1) The Impossible in Itself: Is that whose non-existence is not due to any cause save the impossibility of
itself, such as the impossibility of the existence of any two contradictory elements at the same time, i.e. we
cannot assume the existence and the non-existence of one thing at the same time, this is not accepted by the
mind. The Impossible does not exist in minds nor in reality.
2) The Possible by Itself: Is that whose existence and non-existence are due to cause. All the existing
things perceptible by our senses are an example for the Possible by itself; they need a cause to exist and
another to cease to exist. The existence of the cause must precede the existence of the Possible, and
anything that is preceded by non-existence is incidental, hence the Possible is incidental because it is
preceded by non-existence.
Possible things not only need a cause to exist but they also need a cause to continue to exist. This cause is
the originator, the donor of existence, and the true doer; it grants existence to these possible things.
As long as the Possible needs a cause to exist, then they need a finder; this finder can neither be an
Impossible nor another Possible, so it could only be the Necessary Being, whose existence is the true cause
of all existence.
3) The Necessary Being: Is that who is self-existent and whose existence is not due to any other cause save
its true presence and epithets; i.e. if  this Being is imagined by the mind in an absolute manner, it cannot be
anything other than what is imagined.

06-15-2015, 09:45 PM #4
Armas
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(06-15-2015, 08:46 PM)Krixus Wrote:  I come from a devoted Christian family, to my eyes, my mom is a saint, she taught me everything I needed to know, and she always respected my doubts and questions regarding religion. Way too many inconsistencies in their teachings if I may say... so when I was old enough I took the time to researcn and learn as much as I could about these abrahamic religions, from that, I have to say that muslims, seem to follow their religion in the most devoted, respectful and humble way Ive ever seen.... their submission to God has no comparison in our modern world..... I also attended a few gnostic meetings....

Great respect to you my brother.

(06-15-2015, 08:46 PM)Krixus Wrote:  From all these I had to say, that I feel sorry for Christianity and their followers, good, humble people who are in most cases deceived by the Elites, warmongers, pagans, child abusers and so on, who are infiltrated in the highest ranks of this religion. I feel sorry for the muslims and the horrific existence we have brought upon them, through the propaganda and manipulation that comes from the zionists leaders of these world.... now jews....oh Jews Jews Jews, there is no difference in the Nazi way to see themselves as the perfect race, or the zionist jews who believe themselves are the chosen ones. ( Chosen by who we may ask ) A race chosen by "god" himself  Dodgy. where a life of any of them, worth a 1000 of ours.

I really feel sorry when Christians spend their lives worshipping Jesus. I repeat this point, it's very important, Allah descended the Bible and the Quran. The Quran did not bring new contents to Christians, you immediately can recognize them because you know them. Therefore, It is not a hard task to read it at all. The Quran talks about Jesus himself. Give the Quran a chance. It is not a matter of life or death, but It is a matter of eternity.

06-16-2015, 04:31 PM #5
Gorilla
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(06-15-2015, 08:17 PM)celle76 Wrote:  AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Speaking of concepts of God, aren't you concerned with your god being named after Moloch?

[Malik = melekh]

It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired - you quit when the gorilla is tired.

06-16-2015, 07:28 PM #6
celle76
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(06-16-2015, 04:31 PM)Gorilla Wrote:  
(06-15-2015, 08:17 PM)celle76 Wrote:  AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Speaking of concepts of God, aren't you concerned with your god being named after Moloch?

[Malik = melekh]

just as I stated ...

**** it is conceivable for man to be characterized (by these names) to the extent that they be spoken of him, even though this is done in a fashion different from the application of (these) names to God****

These names can apply to idols or other creation as well, but it when applied from the muslim context your argument is weak as a spine with scoliosis.  The Real King (AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection) is perfect and everything else is just a creation.  Peace!

06-16-2015, 07:33 PM #7
Scimitar
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(06-16-2015, 04:31 PM)Gorilla Wrote:  
(06-15-2015, 08:17 PM)celle76 Wrote:  AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Speaking of concepts of God, aren't you concerned with your god being named after Moloch?

[Malik = melekh]

You're seriously implying that the etymology of the word Malik is Moloch?

Etymology of the name Moloch

The name Moloch is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Molech, and that name comes from the Hebrew noun מלך (melek), meaning king - which is also the same in meaning in Arabic, and Arabic and Hebrew Aramaic are sister languages - hence the word Moloch, comes from Melek, Malik.... not the other way round dude...

...hope that clarifies the etymology Smile

Scimi
This post was last modified: 06-16-2015, 07:34 PM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi

06-18-2015, 08:15 AM #8
Gorilla
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(06-16-2015, 07:33 PM)Scimitar Wrote:  
(06-16-2015, 04:31 PM)Gorilla Wrote:  
(06-15-2015, 08:17 PM)celle76 Wrote:  AL MALIK (The King) The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection.
Speaking of concepts of God, aren't you concerned with your god being named after Moloch?

[Malik = melekh]

You're seriously implying that the etymology of the word Malik is Moloch?

Etymology of the name Moloch

The name Moloch is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Molech, and that name comes from the Hebrew noun מלך (melek), meaning king - which is also the same in meaning in Arabic, and Arabic and Hebrew Aramaic are sister languages - hence the word Moloch, comes from Melek, Malik.... not the other way round dude...

...hope that clarifies the etymology Smile

Scimi
The point is that the name Moloch was already designated to a semitic idol before the Arabic language even existed. Why name God "al Malik" while fully aware of its preceeding designation?

Moloch and melekh are the same, the former is merely a personification to disguise that Moloch (entity) and the King of Israel (title) are one and the same. Since Moloch and melekh are the same, Moloch preceeds the Arabic malik by several centuries, so your "clarification" is actually little more than a muddying of waters.

Dude.

It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired - you quit when the gorilla is tired.

06-18-2015, 08:44 AM #9
Tarikko
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(06-15-2015, 08:46 PM)Krixus Wrote:  I come from a devoted Christian family, to my eyes, my mom is a saint, she taught me everything I needed to know, and she always respected my doubts and questions regarding religion. Way too many inconsistencies in their teachings if I may say... so when I was old enough I took the time to researcn and learn as much as I could about these abrahamic religions, from that, I have to say that muslims, seem to follow their religion in the most devoted, respectful and humble way Ive ever seen.... their submission to God has no comparison in our modern world..... I also attended a few gnostic meetings.... From all these I had to say, that I feel sorry for Christianity and their followers, good, humble people who are in most cases deceived by the Elites, warmongers, pagans, child abusers and so on, who are infiltrated in the highest ranks of this religion. I feel sorry for the muslims and the horrific existence we have brought upon them, through the propaganda and manipulation that comes from the zionists leaders of these world.... now jews....oh Jews Jews Jews, there is no difference in the Nazi way to see themselves as the perfect race, or the zionist jews who believe themselves are the chosen ones. ( Chosen by who we may ask ) A race chosen by "god" himself  Dodgy. where a life of any of them, worth a 1000 of ours.

In conclusion, God, the Architect of this so called reality, dwells beyond our insignificant existence, no human in flesh and bone could have the ability to even grasp the real concept of God.... let alone say they understand him/her or his plans for humanity ( if there is any )

Wow brother, you brought a big smile to my face... May God smile upon you in return for your kindness.

That is the allure of Islam Krixus... I said it before... it is the way we identify God.. Islam is the triumph of common sense as someone once put it...

No other religion can describe God like Islam does and do him justice at that... Mashallah..

He is the One and Only, the Unique, the Indivisible, the unique in his oneness. The First and the Last. The Eternal being, the Self-Sustainer, the One who is free of needs. The Creator and Originator of everything, The Evolver, the Giver and Taker of life. The one who is ALWAYS in control. The Lord of the worlds and the Universe. The one who caused the Big bang to happen. The Ultimate Inheritor, the Greatest and the most high.

Beyond our imagination and NOTHING like his creation.

He did NOT beget and NOR was he begotten.

The Merciful and the Compassionate... The Loving. The one who is acquainted with every ill will we bear in the corner of our hearts. The one who knows the weight of EACH atom in the Universe.

The Vengeful and Retributionist. The Just. The Master of the day of judgement. The one who will ultimately decide where you will spend your afterlife, be it heaven or hell.

The One who did NOT beget NOR was he begotten.

The one who sent countless Prophets across the ages with the SAME MESSAGE. From Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, Jacob, Jonas, John, Moses, David, Solomon... JESUS AND MUHAMMAD.

The ONLY ONE who is worthy of my worship. Not Muhammad, not Jesus, not the Kaaba, not a statue, not a cross, not a cow, not the planets, the moon, the stars, the angels, the demons, Hollywood idols/stars... Nothing CREATED.

The Essence of Islam is to worship the Creator and NOTHING CREATED.

That is how we identify God... nevertheless he will always be beyond our comprehension and imagination.


And Gorilla mate, I can assure you Malek has nothing to do with Moloch... My youngest son's name is Malik. Malik Yusuf (Malek Joseph that is)

The verb Malaka means "to own".... Malek means an owner and in this instance a King...Malaka= Queen

God is Malika al Mulk, meaning the Lord/King of all dominions

And Gorilla this is not a NAME, that is an Attribute...
This post was last modified: 06-18-2015, 09:10 AM by Tarikko.


“The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.”


― Thomas Carlyle, On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History





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06-18-2015, 08:59 AM #10
Scimitar
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(06-18-2015, 08:15 AM)Gorilla Wrote:  The point is that the name Moloch was already designated to a semitic idol before the Arabic language even existed. Why name God "al Malik" while fully aware of its preceeding designation?

No bro, Arabic is as old as Noah's son Shem. The Aramaic Hebrew and Arabic are sister languages - the seed of Abraham settled Jerusalem and Mecca - two cities were founded here and the nations of both - interacted with each other throughout antiquity... see, the mistake modern western historians make is that they measure a language by its written works - the Arabs were never big on writing, instead they had a culture where they memorised everything and passed this down father to son - henceforth, no ancient Arabic writing exists from pre Islamic Arabia... that's not to say the Arabs didn't have an alphabet... they did and they would only use it to seal deals with other nations, treaties and such...

...now here is where it gets really interesting... do you know the etymology of the world "alphabet"???? It's from Arabic... that's right. Look it up yourself.

(06-18-2015, 08:15 AM)Gorilla Wrote:  Moloch and melekh are the same, the former is merely a personification to disguise that Moloch (entity) and the King of Israel (title) are one and the same. Since Moloch and melekh are the same, Moloch preceeds the Arabic malik by several centuries, so your "clarification" is actually little more than a muddying of waters.

Dude.

You're no expert in languages, that is clear to see and your historical methodology is seriously left wanting i'm afraid. You're playing to a bias, and ignoring all else. Why? Why do that? that is not honest of you.

Remember, we're on a forum called vigilant,

Scimi
This post was last modified: 06-18-2015, 08:59 AM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi
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