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Game of Thrones *spoilers, sorry*


06-08-2015, 10:57 PM #1
truthgasm
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So I been watching this the whole way through, as disturbing as that has been at times, and I've been convinced all along it serves to normalise a whole host of bad juju behaviour, but until last night I never thought they could normalise the whole incest thing. Then Ellaria Sand has a talk with Jamie Lannister about how incest is just like any other kind of relationship and 'we want who we want'..... excuse me, what? I can't find the excerpt on youtube but it was worded like a civil rights speech, someone in the room with me applauded even! She had internalised the monologue to be about gay and trans rights, as was probably the intention.

Will we start seeing more sympathy for incestuous couples in the same way we've seen for other alternative lifestyles? 

What are your favourite propaganda moments from Game of Thrones?

And, while we're at it, how many various and inventive kinds of rape does a writer reeeeeeeally need to intricately describe before he is assessed by a mental health professional?

the new world order lobotomised me and now i think Jay-Z matters.
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06-08-2015, 11:40 PM #2
Sarge
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Don't think they are trying to normalise incestuous relationships..bit of a stretch. If anything they are making the case against it by showing how messed the outcome can be (Goffrey). Incest has been a practice amongst the Elite throughout history, so it ties in with the shows historical context.

One thing the show does do alot is cater to the LGBT community. Friends that have read the books, say the show is excessive with it.
This post was last modified: 06-08-2015, 11:42 PM by Sarge.

06-09-2015, 06:41 AM #3
Goku
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Game of Thrones is a fantasy series based on the books.

Whatever you see was already pre-empted by the books. I don't think they are encouraging incestuous relationships as Sarge said. The series is already controvertial enough with common morals, if they start encouraging ridiculous taboos openly in the media and they use Game of Thrones as their basis then yes, we should start worrying.

At the moment it's still a fantasy series where incest is common knowledge. In the same episode Merrin Trant goes to a Brothel and asks for a little girl, which they deliver, and agreed to have a fresh girl for him the next day.

There are scenes which are taboos in this day and age and I understand your saying because they are taboos, the Elite are trying to push these values through G.O.T which is on TV for everyone to watch, but again, it was all pre-empted so they can only glorify it to an extent.

I dunno, it just seems like a bit of a reach, my opinion.

06-09-2015, 08:21 AM #4
Loki
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(06-09-2015, 06:41 AM)Goku Wrote:  Game of Thrones is a fantasy series based on the books.

Whatever you see was already pre-empted by the books. I don't think they are encouraging incestuous relationships as Sarge said. The series is already controvertial enough with common morals, if they start encouraging ridiculous taboos openly in the media and they use Game of Thrones as their basis then yes, we should start worrying.

At the moment it's still a fantasy series where incest is common knowledge. In the same episode Merrin Trant goes to a Brothel and asks for a little girl, which they deliver, and agreed to have a fresh girl for him the next day.

There are scenes which are taboos in this day and age and I understand your saying because they are taboos, the Elite are trying to push these values through G.O.T which is on TV for everyone to watch, but again, it was all pre-empted so they can only glorify it to an extent.

I dunno, it just seems like a bit of a reach, my opinion.

*EPISODE 9 SPOILERS BELOW*

I was more disturbed by Meryn Trant's brothel scene and burning a child alive than I was about their talk of incest. In the context of that world that was a legitimate point of view she had. They don't realize like we do the harm that can come to a child through being a product of incest, the best they know is that incest was more likely to produce a child that is mentally unstable (Joffrey and 50% of all Targaryens). If you aren't particularly religious then you have no real reason to look down on a couple practicing incest. That said, I don't think the show has really glamorized it very much, making most scenes with Cersei and Jaime very tense, awkward, and weird feeling.

If anything the biggest "sell" on incest in the show is Dany, she isn't practicing it but she is a product of it and most people's favorite character.

Personally

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan

06-09-2015, 09:17 AM #5
Goku
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(06-09-2015, 08:21 AM)Loki Wrote:  
(06-09-2015, 06:41 AM)Goku Wrote:  Game of Thrones is a fantasy series based on the books.

Whatever you see was already pre-empted by the books. I don't think they are encouraging incestuous relationships as Sarge said. The series is already controvertial enough with common morals, if they start encouraging ridiculous taboos openly in the media and they use Game of Thrones as their basis then yes, we should start worrying.

At the moment it's still a fantasy series where incest is common knowledge. In the same episode Merrin Trant goes to a Brothel and asks for a little girl, which they deliver, and agreed to have a fresh girl for him the next day.

There are scenes which are taboos in this day and age and I understand your saying because they are taboos, the Elite are trying to push these values through G.O.T which is on TV for everyone to watch, but again, it was all pre-empted so they can only glorify it to an extent.

I dunno, it just seems like a bit of a reach, my opinion.

*EPISODE 9 SPOILERS BELOW*

I was more disturbed by Meryn Trant's brothel scene and burning a child alive than I was about their talk of incest. In the context of that world that was a legitimate point of view she had. They don't realize like we do the harm that can come to a child through being a product of incest, the best they know is that incest was more likely to produce a child that is mentally unstable (Joffrey and 50% of all Targaryens). If you aren't particularly religious then you have no real reason to look down on a couple practicing incest. That said, I don't think the show has really glamorized it very much, making most scenes with Cersei and Jaime very tense, awkward, and weird feeling.

If anything the biggest "sell" on incest in the show is Dany, she isn't practicing it but she is a product of it and most people's favorite character.

Personally

Yeah I fully agree Loki.

Your right in the fact they they make those scenes awkward, I meant if they were to glorify it, they wouldn't be able to do a good job.

Again, this is the least of my worries as you said. Meryn Trant likes grooming young children, this should be of more talk atleast due to the Saville incidents and child grooming rings within the UK and also because Westeros loosely resembles the England.

Westeros is England, The Wall is Hadrians Wall, the Wildlings are the Scottish, the Dornish are the French, Bravos is Ancient Greece, Mereen is Ancient Rome and the Dothraki resemble the mongolians.

A bit of a strench but the similarities are all there.

06-09-2015, 09:25 AM #6
Loki
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I always thought Dorne was more Spain than France.

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan

06-10-2015, 01:11 PM #7
RiderOfKarma
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(06-09-2015, 09:25 AM)Loki Wrote:  I always thought Dorne was more Spain than France.

Yeah, the accents point to that or maybe Portugal.

06-11-2015, 04:26 AM #8
Goku
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(06-09-2015, 09:25 AM)Loki Wrote:  I always thought Dorne was more Spain than France.

Well I'd say they represent that area of Europe, the author is a history student so I'm sure he knows stuff better than I.

06-11-2015, 09:17 PM #9
Vytas
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(06-08-2015, 10:57 PM)truthgasm Wrote:  So I been watching this the whole way through, as disturbing as that has been at times, and I've been convinced all along it serves to normalise a whole host of bad juju behaviour, but until last night I never thought they could normalise the whole incest thing. Then Ellaria Sand has a talk with Jamie Lannister about how incest is just like any other kind of relationship and 'we want who we want'..... excuse me, what? I can't find the excerpt on youtube but it was worded like a civil rights speech, someone in the room with me applauded even! She had internalised the monologue to be about gay and trans rights, as was probably the intention.

Will we start seeing more sympathy for incestuous couples in the same way we've seen for other alternative lifestyles? 

What are your favourite propaganda moments from Game of Thrones?

And, while we're at it, how many various and inventive kinds of rape does a writer reeeeeeeally need to intricately describe before he is assessed by a mental health professional?


Spot on, that scene is clearly inserted and with purpose. Elarria really hate's Jamie and his family and im sure that's not going to change, but suddenly she jumps in for a quick chat with him about "incest no big deal" theme, after that she will continue to hate his guts..Lol okay...And anyyone who can't see it's inserted wasn't paying enough attention.
My favorite propaganda is reek and his handler with joseph mangele kind of abilities and tastes...

Truth is precious it's guarded by God

06-13-2015, 10:28 AM #10
Ncherieamour
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(06-11-2015, 09:17 PM)Vytas Wrote:  
(06-08-2015, 10:57 PM)truthgasm Wrote:  So I been watching this the whole way through, as disturbing as that has been at times, and I've been convinced all along it serves to normalise a whole host of bad juju behaviour, but until last night I never thought they could normalise the whole incest thing. Then Ellaria Sand has a talk with Jamie Lannister about how incest is just like any other kind of relationship and 'we want who we want'..... excuse me, what? I can't find the excerpt on youtube but it was worded like a civil rights speech, someone in the room with me applauded even! She had internalised the monologue to be about gay and trans rights, as was probably the intention.

Will we start seeing more sympathy for incestuous couples in the same way we've seen for other alternative lifestyles? 

What are your favourite propaganda moments from Game of Thrones?

And, while we're at it, how many various and inventive kinds of rape does a writer reeeeeeeally need to intricately describe before he is assessed by a mental health professional?
 

Spot on, that scene is clearly inserted  and with purpose. Elarria really hate's Jamie and his family and im sure that's not going to change, but suddenly she  jumps in for a quick chat with him about "incest no big deal" theme, after that she will continue to hate his guts..Lol okay...And anyyone who can't see it's inserted wasn't paying enough attention.
My favorite propaganda is reek and his handler with joseph mangele kind of abilities and tastes...

I can definitely say that while incest is a common theme throughout the book series, it's never blessed off on. That episode was the far most disappointing one ever, I don't think d&d could do any more harm to the series than they did. At no point ever do Ellaria and Jamie have a discussion about incest being 'cool'. On top of that, Meryn Trant is a character that is created to be disliked, but pedo-bear??? That was way too much! Waaaaaaaaay....

So my LEAST favorite propaganda moments are the obsession with all forms of child abuse...burning Shireen, pedofilia, even Joffrey as Marquis de Sade...these things are the burning of Shireen is an obvious possibility in the books, but damn. The evils that are represented in the series are (I feel) for the purpose of graying up the world, but they get a lot of emphasis on the T.V. Show, where the goods are really downplayed or excluded from the show entirely, with the exception of the High Sparrow.
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