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10-15-2015, 02:34 PM #1
Thy Unveiling
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Since it seems people in general seem to have a lot of questions regarding religion and the books, perhaps we could try and keep them all in one thread? Perhaps not, that's entirely up to everyone else.

Anyhow. One I've always wondered is if Adam and Eve were the first two, and they had two sons, and we all came from Adam and Eve...do I really need to spell it out? If the grown sons (I don't recall if Abel had a wife and kids before he died. I feel like he did, I could be wrong. Feel free to set me straight.) had proper wives, where did they come from? Why aren't these other families mentioned? Surely they'd be relevant. Otherwise we're all products of incest. I don't say this to be controversial. I can't be the only one who's wondered this. In my church days, I asked it yet nobody could give a coherent answer. Perhaps I asked the wrong people?

Also Lillith. Some say she is "The wife of Satan", others say she was Adam's first wife who took off cuz she didn't want to play second fiddle to Adam...and later became Lucifer's wife and had something to do with people drawing symbols above their cribs to protect infants from her.
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10-15-2015, 03:10 PM #2
The Creeper
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Those are some good questions.

Im posting some scientific interpretation here, http://heinakroon.com/2013/01/25/eve-ada...t-make-it/. The author doesn't seem to be a very religious guy I notice towards the end. Fairytails  Rolleyes I know these stories are old and some of them may be metaphorical, but I would like to see how well any of us would do explaining the creation of the universe and mankind to people thousands of years ago without ending up with a spear in our guts.

As for Lillith, she is only a demon/jinn, possibly a succubus, nothing to worry about, we are simply better than them.

I need to read the OT again I think. I will when I have the time, too much going on right now. I need my own copies.

I have a question.

Seriously guys, I am not trying to insult anyone but I don't get it.

Why does God hate pigs? If they are so bad why did He create them?

İmage

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool – William Shakespear
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10-15-2015, 03:29 PM #3
Thy Unveiling
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Hm. Interesting link. Not sure what I think on all that, and I don't fully comprehend that type of speak very well, but I caught the gist of it. Doesn't make much sense to me and I think they're full of it. But interesting nonetheless.

Thanks for being my first reply Wink

Idk what the deal is with pigs. Some of them are so adorable! Is it that they believe pigs are dirty? I've always understood it as they're supposed to be the cleanest animal. Maybe it's a respect thing, like cows with some cultures.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

There's only one true judge and that's God; so chill and let Our Father do His job
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10-15-2015, 03:35 PM #4
Loki
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And to add to Creeper's query: Why did he make them taste so damn good? I totally understand why Eve ate the Fruit of Knowledge, God likes to make the most delicious shit and then say, "Don't eat this, it's really bad for you."

“Life is neither good or evil, but only a place for good and evil.”
Marcus Aurelius

"In my opinion, there is a more scientific approach we can take to all hot-button issues. We do this when we stop demonizing the opposing viewpoints or victimizing ourselves, and we acknowledge and account for our own biases and emotions to the best of our ability."
--- Elliott C. Morgan
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10-15-2015, 03:38 PM #5
FlixKandish
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Adam and Eve never existed, so it follows that their entire lineage is also a myth. The stories make so much more sense when you don't try to revise history in order to cater to mythology. 

Think about in TU, neanderthals were walking the earth over 40,000 years ago. Adam and Eve were purported to live only 6000 years ago. Also there are mythologies far older than christianity and the bible with their own creation stories. What makes one of the younger religions more truthful than the religions before it? 

I think public education ie schools need to teach more about the different ancient religions, the evolution of myth and ceremony, the fact that there was no Aryan invasion, and more about how advanced the Roman Empire was, so kids can realize that history is far more vast than their parents holy books tell them.

We are in the 21st century, age of instant information, yet you're dwelling on problems with a literal interpretation of a 2000 year old story. 

I'm not trying to be rude, it's just frustrating to see otherwise smart people wasting brain cells on literally nothing.
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10-15-2015, 03:40 PM #6
Scimitar
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(10-15-2015, 03:38 PM)FlixKandish Wrote:  Adam and Eve never existed, [/snip]

You can't prove that Big Grin it's your opinion. You should write - "I believe Adam and Eve never existed" instead. Not just throw it out here like a fact Big Grin

Scimi
This post was last modified: 10-15-2015, 03:40 PM by Scimitar.

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi
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10-15-2015, 03:43 PM #7
Annonymous Damsel
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(10-15-2015, 03:10 PM)The Creeper Wrote:  Those are some good questions.

Im posting some scientific interpretation here, http://heinakroon.com/2013/01/25/eve-ada...t-make-it/. The author doesn't seem to be a very religious guy I notice towards the end. Fairytails  Rolleyes I know these stories are old and some of them may be metaphorical, but I would like to see how well any of us would do explaining the creation of the universe and mankind to people thousands of years ago without ending up with a spear in our guts.

As for Lillith, she is only a demon/jinn, possibly a succubus, nothing to worry about, we are simply better than them.

I need to read the OT again I think. I will when I have the time, too much going on right now. I need my own copies.

I have a question.

Seriously guys, I am not trying to insult anyone but I don't get it.

Why does God hate pigs? If they are so bad why did He create them?

İmage

Who said God does not like pigs?Was this mentioned in the Bible and Quaran?Please educate me Undecided
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10-15-2015, 03:49 PM #8
Tarikko
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I will reply to your questions tomorrow inshallah as it's bedtime for me... And hopefully the answers will be satisfactory.

I will also reply to the ridiculous claim that Adam and Eve were here merely 6,000 years ago

Maybe this is present in the bible, correct me if I'm wrong, but not the Quran or Islam in general.


“The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.”


― Thomas Carlyle, On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History





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10-15-2015, 03:57 PM #9
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(10-15-2015, 03:10 PM)The Creeper Wrote:  Why does God hate pigs? If they are so bad why did He create them?

Pigs provide a function to society in that they eat what we throw away, they eat all manner of rotting things which, if left to nature, would cause air borne diseases such as plagues.

God created the pig as a means to regulate the earth via it eating away all the disease.

God specifically instructs those who believe in HIM not to eat the swine (pig) because it is an impure animal - the reasons are now obvious why.

Pigs eat the rubbish which cause bacteria and spread diseases which cause epidemics. The pig helps to halt the spread of such things. it has a place and purpose in the world.

If anything, it has a rather humble role on earth - to eat the rubbish no other animals will come near. Yes it's a dirty animal, but that is its "fitra" - the natural state Allah created it in - for the very purpose I mentioned above.

If it is disgraced, it is because we humans are judgemental fools.

We cannot eat a pig though, because of the illnesses it contains. So many diseases are mulitiplied as potential illnesses to take root in the one who digests the pig meat. The pig cannot sweat, it has no sweat glands - so all its dirty sweat is contained within the body. Its digestive system is too quick, and so what it eats ends up in the blood system of the animal and then gets pumped around the body, it is an hardy animal that can handle that condition - but for humans to eat it would be quite the dumb thing to do.

And Allah wants only the best for us human beings.

Is this the only argument? There are scientific reasons recently discovered in our times as to why consuming the flesh of a pig is bad for us humans.

With regard to the physical harm caused by eating pork, modern science has proved a number of things, such as the following:

‎Pork is regarded as one of the kinds of meat that contain the most cholesterol, an increase of which in the bloodstream leads to an increased likelihood of blocked arteries. The fatty acids in pork are also of an unusual formation, when compared with the fatty acids in other types of food, which makes them more easily absorbed by the body, thus increasing cholesterol levels.

‎ Pork meat and pork fat contribute to the spread of cancers of the colon, rectum, prostate and blood.

‎ Pork meat and pork fat contribute to obesity and related diseases that are difficult to treat.

‎ Eating pork leads to scabies, allergies and stomach ulcers.

‎ Eating pork causes lung infections which result from tapeworms, lungworms and microbial infections of the lungs.

The most serious danger of eating pork is that pork contains tapeworms which may grow to a length of 2-3 meters. The growth of the eggs of these worms in the human body may lead to insanity and hysteria if they grow in the area of the brain. If they grow in the region of the heart that may lead to high blood pressure and heart attacks. Another kind of worm that is to be found in pork is the trichinosis worm that cannot be killed by cooking, the growth of which in the body may lead to paralysis and skin rashes.

The doctors have confirmed that tapeworm disease is regarded as one of the serious diseases that may result from eating pork. It may develop in the small intestine and after several months may grow into a large worm whose body is composed of a thousand segments, with a length of 4-10 meters, which lives alone in the intestine of the infected person and part of it may appear when he defecates. When the pig swallows and ingests its eggs, they enter the tissues and muscles in the form of larvae sacs containing fluid and the head of the tapeworm. When a person eats infected pork, the larva turns into a complete worm in the intestine. These worms cause weakness and vitamin B12 deficiency, which leads to a specific type of anaemia, which may in turn cause nervous problems. In some cases the larvae may reach the brain, causing convulsions, increased pressure within the brain, epilepsy and even paralysis.

Eating pork that is not thoroughly cooked may also lead to trichinosis (infestation with a hairlike nematode worm). When these parasites reach the small intestine, three to five days later many larvae appear which enter the intestine and reach the blood, from which they reach most of the tissues of the body. The larvae move to the muscles and form cysts there, and the patient suffers intense muscle pains. The disease may develop into infection of the cerebral membrane and brain, and infections of the heart muscle, lungs, kidneys and nerves. It may be a fatal disease in rare cases.

It is well known that there are some diseases that are unique to humans and are nor shared with any other animals except pigs, such as rheumatism and joint pain. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said (interpretation of the meaning):

"He has forbidden you only the Maytah (dead animals), and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allah (or has been slaughtered for idols, on which Allah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity without willful disobedience nor transgressing due limits, then there is no sin on him. Truly, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" - Qur'an, Surah al-Baqarah 2:173

These are some of the harmful effects of eating pork. Perhaps after studying them you will not have any doubts that it is forbidden. We hope that this will be the first step in your being guided towards the true religion. So stop, research, look and think, objectively and fairly, seeking only to find out the truth and follow it. I ask Allah to guide you to that which is best for you in this world and in the Hereafter.

But even if we did not know about the harmful effects of eating pork, this would not change our belief that it is haram (unlawful) in the slightest, or weaken our resolve to abstain from it. You know that when Adam (peace be upon him) was expelled from the Garden, it was because he ate from the tree from which Allah forbade him to eat. We do not know anything about that tree, and Adam did not need to enquire into the reason why it was forbidden to eat from it. Rather it was sufficient for him, as it is sufficient for us and for every believer, to know that Allah has forbidden it.

And Allah wants only the best for us human beings.

Scimi

Out beyond ideas
of wrong-doing,


and right-doing,

there is a field...

...I'll meet you there.
€



Jalaluddin Rumi

10-15-2015, 03:59 PM #10
The Creeper
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Thy Unveiling, it has been a while since I read the Old Testament, so I didn't think I could anwer your questions that well. You could ask the same thing about Noah's family after the flood.

Flix brings up a point with the Neanderthals (we are not desended from them, they were a different species of hominid, think like the difference between lions and tigers). I think the world is way older than 6000 years and how do you explain fossils and stuff. That doesn't make the old stories untrue, I can't say either way, I wasn't there. I will know one way or the other when I get to the other side. Even if you think these old stories are just myths, they still contain a moral guidance which has stood the test of time (even if a lot of people get confused about it, thats just people being people). I also like her point about looking at lots of different religions and cultures.

Pigs are not considered clean. Having worked with animals, I can verify that they are filthy creatures, but so are chickens and ducks but they are fine to eat.

Pigs are well tasty, they are also really smart. I used to love running around in their pen, throwing things for them and giving them belly rubs. How smart they are (and there emotional capabilties) are more motivation for me to stop eating them than saying they are dirty, because I don't care if they are dirty. I consider myself dirtier than a pig, well not physically, but in my head and heart we are probably on a similar level.

Didn't Jesus say "its not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, its what comes out of him"

The booze I can understand, its poison anyway. This pork issue is really bugging me, im sure there are worse crimes that I have already commited. Damn that bacon temptation.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool – William Shakespear
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