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Occupied Palestine - 'Israel'


10-12-2015, 07:23 PM #1
Serendipity
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Good everning\morning

This is my first thread so I find it convenient and obligatory that I start with the main issue in the Middle East and probably the world, Occupied Palestine. And yes, I do call it occupied Palestine rather than Israel because I refuse to acknowledge its existence. I guess my stance on the issue is clear, especially considering that I am from Palestine itself.

In the light of the current issues going on over there, some are even calling it 'the third intifada', I would like to know what people on this forum actually think about the issue.

Do you believe in the legitimacy of the state of 'Israel'? If you do, why is that? Do you think the Jews (of different races if I may add) have a right to take away the land of people that have been there for generations?


P.S. I am genuinely interested in learning about other people's opinion on the issue and I hope I can provide an insight about it as well.
 
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10-12-2015, 11:14 PM #2
That1kid
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Well Kung Fu, shall we?

Matthew 6:34
"Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is it's own trouble."

10-12-2015, 11:38 PM #3
Thunderian
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There is no historical record of a "Palestinian" people. Jews, on the other hand, have been recorded as living in the land called Israel for thousands of years.
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10-13-2015, 01:32 AM #4
Serendipity
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(10-12-2015, 11:38 PM)Thunderian Wrote:  There is no historical record of a "Palestinian" people. Jews, on the other hand, have been recorded as living in the land called Israel for thousands of years.

Actually there is. Can you provide me with any historical record for Jews in Palestine? What about if I tell you my grandfather was born in Palestine in the 1920s and his birth certificate states that there was a state of Palestine?

Obviously, there were Palestinian Jews as there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

The current Jews in Palestine come from different races and they don't even deny it. There are the Russian Jews, the Polish Jews etc.

How is it fair, in your opinion, for a random person, let's stay from any European country, who wants to convert to Judaism to actually have a 'right' to go live there, get the passport and get paid while at it just because he/she decided to convert. However, the descendants of the people who lived there for thousands of years, live in refugee camps and can't even cross the borders to their previous/occupied homes?

I have been there myself and let me tell you this, Jews, at least the Israeli Jews aren't exactly friendly.
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10-13-2015, 02:12 AM #5
HongKongHoward
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(10-13-2015, 01:32 AM)Serendipity Wrote:  
(10-12-2015, 11:38 PM)Thunderian Wrote:  There is no historical record of a "Palestinian" people. Jews, on the other hand, have been recorded as living in the land called Israel for thousands of years.

Actually there is. Can you provide me with any historical record for Jews in Palestine? What about if I tell you my grandfather was born in Palestine in the 1920s and his birth certificate states that there was a state of Palestine?

Obviously, there were Palestinian Jews as there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

The current Jews in Palestine come from different races and they don't even deny it. There are the Russian Jews, the Polish Jews etc.

How is it fair, in your opinion, for a random person, let's stay from any European country, who wants to convert to Judaism to actually have a 'right' to go live there, get the passport and get paid while at it just because he/she decided to convert. However, the descendants of the people who lived there for thousands of years, live in refugee camps and can't even cross the borders to their previous/occupied homes?

I have been there myself and let me tell you this, Jews, at least the Israeli Jews aren't exactly friendly.

Based on information in your post, this might be fairly relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

Crazy situation Sad

"You can find in a text whatever you bring, if you will stand between it and the mirror of your imagination. You may not see your ears, but they will be there." - Moral, by the Cat
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10-13-2015, 02:27 AM #6
Thunderian
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(10-13-2015, 01:32 AM)Serendipity Wrote:  Can you provide me with any historical record for Jews in Palestine?

Yes, the Bible and the Quran both testify to the Jews' residence in so-called Palestine. As well, contemporary historical records -- Josephus, for instance -- tell the same story.

Quote:What about if I tell you my grandfather was born in Palestine in the 1920s and his birth certificate states that there was a state of Palestine?

There was a PLACE that was called Palestine. There was never a people called that.

Quote:Obviously, there were Palestinian Jews as there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

That statement does not bolster your argument.

Quote:The current Jews in Palestine come from different races and they don't even deny it. There are the Russian Jews, the Polish Jews etc.

Russian is not a race. Neither is Polish. A Jew who emigrates from Israel to Russia and back doesn't become a different race. A Jew is still a Jew.

Quote:How is it fair, in your opinion, for a random person, let's stay from any European country, who wants to convert to Judaism to actually have a 'right' to go live there, get the passport and get paid while at it just because he/she decided to convert.

It doesn't have to be fair. It's the Jews' country and they can do whatever they want with it.

Quote:However, the descendants of the people who lived there for thousands of years, live in refugee camps and can't even cross the borders to their previous/occupied homes?

They shouldn't have left their homes in the first place. There are millions of Arab citizens of Israel. Want to guess how they managed that?

Quote:I have been there myself and let me tell you this, Jews, at least the Israeli Jews aren't exactly friendly.

Jews are friendlier to Palestinians than Palestinians are to them.
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10-13-2015, 03:32 AM #7
Tarikko
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Assalam sister

Don't mind Thunderian... He is a "Christian" for Israel, in other words a Zionist

This is an oxymoron by itself as the Talmudists (most of the Israelis of today) HATE Jesus with a vengeance they even go to dare utter that he is, and i quote, "boiling in hot excrement"..

Read some of the Talmud and see for yourself where the hate REALLY takes root. The Zionists are STILL awaiting their "Messiah"... for Muslims and Christians alike, Jesus PBUH was the Messiah.. The "Jews" are still awaiting "theirs"..."we can take a guess"... The Dajjal? If i was a gambling man, i'd wager all my money on it

What is ironic is that the Palestinians are actually the Semite people, while the Israelis are mostly Khazars, with blond hair and blue eyes (and NO it has not been debunked)... unless it was debunked by Zionists themselves... Just like 9/11 conspiracy was "debunked" by the US government.. talking of the fox guarding the hen house

You can count on the Zionist main stream media to inverse the situation.

I have a special place for the Palestinians in my heart... Always had and always will. They are the ONLY true resistance in the Arab/Islamic world (Christian Palestinians are also our brothers in this fight against the occupier)... the media makes sure not to put the Christian Palestinians plight in the spotlight as this would reflect negatively on the wackos called "Christians for Israel

No one in his right state of mind would support the Zionist Apartheid Terrorist Rogue Nation known as Israel.

Their crimes for the past 70 years are unrivaled.

They evict the natives from their lands, steal their livelihood, kill their people, maim, bomb, cut social ties, torture... every kind of vile act.. then they yell terrorism when Palestinians defend themselves or retaliate

A vile nation, a cancer in the Arab world that has spread..

A list of the crimes/atrocities committed by the Israelis against a defenseless population.. and thx to their fancy PR they can get away with it... and even convinced some morons that they are actually defending themselves lol

Land grabbing, colonization of Palestinian land; confiscations of property;
forced expulsions; ethnic cleansing; no right of return; apartheid; terrorism; murders;
mass murders; using white phosphorus in populated areas; discrimination and unequal
treatment; torture; collective punishment; punishing families because of actions of one
member; bulldozing homes and then stealing Red Cross-provided tents and emergency supplies;
demolition of homes; making it difficult or impossible for Palestinians to obtain building
permits; separation walls; checkpoints; blockades; discriminatory laws and unjust courts;
Jewish-only roads built on Palestinian territory; Palestinian-only buses in West Bank;
hogging water resources; restricting freedom of press in West Bank; restriction of exports
of agricultural and industrial exports from Gaza; restriction of humanitarian aid into Gaza;
blocked the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and Palestinian Red Crescent Society (PRCS) from accessing badly wounded and dead civilians for several days; depriving Gaza of adequate electrical power, food, medicine, water, cooking gas, fuel and medical care;
discriminatory land ownership laws favoring Jews; destroying orchards; Israeli authorities
took inadequate legal action against criminal Israeli settlers; failure to see to the
physical needs of protected persons in occupied territories; destroying cisterns; turning
springs owned by the indigenous population into tourist attractions; illegal transfer of
the occupier's population into occupied territories; illegal occupier-only settlements on
occupied territory; harvesting organs from dead prisoners w/o the families' permission at
The National Institute of Forensic Medicine at Abu Kabir by Dr. Yehuda Hiss and associates;
mistreatment of children; unlawful detention; no freedom of peaceful assembly; no freedom of
travel; throwing stun grenades into mosques; bulldozing Mosques; canceled peace talks because their enemy signed some international human rights conventions, joined some UN human rights agencies, signed a unity agreement, recognized Israel, threatened to take their case to the ICC; 'price tag' attacks, Jewish vandals hit mosque and church and threaten Christians; got so angered by the Palestinian unity government that they are building more illegal

Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian soil; later announced thousands more illegal
settlements as revenge because THEY themselves broke off peace talks; abducted hundreds
of Palestinians after 3 Jewish teenagers went missing in the occupied territories; kicked
down doors to homes of innocent Palestinians' homes and took them over, and killed several
Palestinian teens; construction of a separation wall that may isolate farmers from
fields they have cultivated for centuries; demolished homes of two Palestinian murder
suspects even before apprehending them, but did not demolish homes of prominent Jewish rabbi's family, even though three of his children and grandchildren confessed to murdering a
Palestinian kid; indiscriminately attacked Gaza with air strikes killing over 2000 people,
mostly civilians, with huge bombs that can level entire neighborhoods; and shelled kids playing....

Not even the tip of the iceberg

One day the tables will turn sister... and justice shall prevail

Assalam
This post was last modified: 10-13-2015, 01:31 PM by Tarikko.


“The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only.”


― Thomas Carlyle, On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History





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10-13-2015, 05:39 AM #8
Goku
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The Earth belongs to nobody.

Israel doesn't belong to the Jewish - it was given to them by the Allies in WW2, they want it because their Holy Book states it was given to them by God - which is of course, not true.

Pre-1948 it was called Palestine, therefore people living there were mainly Palestinians but there were also Jews.

Now in the 21st century, all Jews want the non-Jews removed so they can take ownership of all the land - hence we're at an impasse.

Ask yourself this:

Does America belong to the Native Americans or the Europeans?

Does Israel belong to the Palestinians or the Jews?
This post was last modified: 10-13-2015, 11:38 AM by Goku.
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10-13-2015, 07:44 AM #9
Serendipity
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(10-13-2015, 02:12 AM)HongKongHoward Wrote:  
(10-13-2015, 01:32 AM)Serendipity Wrote:  
(10-12-2015, 11:38 PM)Thunderian Wrote:  There is no historical record of a "Palestinian" people. Jews, on the other hand, have been recorded as living in the land called Israel for thousands of years.

Actually there is. Can you provide me with any historical record for Jews in Palestine? What about if I tell you my grandfather was born in Palestine in the 1920s and his birth certificate states that there was a state of Palestine?

Obviously, there were Palestinian Jews as there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

The current Jews in Palestine come from different races and they don't even deny it. There are the Russian Jews, the Polish Jews etc.

How is it fair, in your opinion, for a random person, let's stay from any European country, who wants to convert to Judaism to actually have a 'right' to go live there, get the passport and get paid while at it just because he/she decided to convert. However, the descendants of the people who lived there for thousands of years, live in refugee camps and can't even cross the borders to their previous/occupied homes?

I have been there myself and let me tell you this, Jews, at least the Israeli Jews aren't exactly friendly.

Based on information in your post, this might be fairly relevant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

Crazy situation Sad

Thank you for the link, wish more people would actually read these stuff.

Its crazy alright Smile
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10-13-2015, 07:57 AM #10
Serendipity
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(10-13-2015, 02:27 AM)Thunderian Wrote:  
(10-13-2015, 01:32 AM)Serendipity Wrote:  Can you provide me with any historical record for Jews in Palestine?

Yes, the Bible and the Quran both testify to the Jews' residence in so-called Palestine. As well, contemporary historical records -- Josephus, for instance -- tell the same story.

Quote:What about if I tell you my grandfather was born in Palestine in the 1920s and his birth certificate states that there was a state of Palestine?

There was a PLACE that was called Palestine. There was never a people called that.

Quote:Obviously, there were Palestinian Jews as there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims.

That statement does not bolster your argument.

Quote:The current Jews in Palestine come from different races and they don't even deny it. There are the Russian Jews, the Polish Jews etc.

Russian is not a race. Neither is Polish. A Jew who emigrates from Israel to Russia and back doesn't become a different race. A Jew is still a Jew.

Quote:How is it fair, in your opinion, for a random person, let's stay from any European country, who wants to convert to Judaism to actually have a 'right' to go live there, get the passport and get paid while at it just because he/she decided to convert.

It doesn't have to be fair. It's the Jews' country and they can do whatever they want with it.

Quote:However, the descendants of the people who lived there for thousands of years, live in refugee camps and can't even cross the borders to their previous/occupied homes?

They shouldn't have left their homes in the first place. There are millions of Arab citizens of Israel. Want to guess how they managed that?

Quote:I have been there myself and let me tell you this, Jews, at least the Israeli Jews aren't exactly friendly.

Jews are friendlier to Palestinians than Palestinians are to them.

The Quran does not testify to that actually. The Israel referred to in the Quran is not the same as the Israel in the current form.

So what am I if I am not Palestinian? My father, grandfather and great grandfather were born there or in the state of Palestine. So lets say that you were born in America, wouldn't you be referred to as American?

And let me get this straight, people who do not relate to the land in any way, but decided to become Jewish, all of a sudden have a right to live there because their 'so-called' religion tells them that but people who lived there for generations are not?

And yes it does relate. A lot of people think Christians are not involved in the resistance, but they are, just as the Muslims are.

Jews are not a race - just like Muslims are not a race. Palestinians are a race, however.

You blame them for leaving but put yourself in their shoes. So if someone backed by the most powerful nations in the world comes to your house and threatens to kill you and your family, wouldn't you leave? Arabs who live in Israel are not exactly happy as they are treated as second class citizen and suffer from ethnic cleansing as well.

Jews are friendlier? Okay, so I have never lived in Palestine but I have been there countless times. The last time I went, the whole journey took me around 12 hours when it could have taken me less than 2 hours had it not been for the Jews. Once I crossed the border to Jericho, the Israelis treated me like I'm less than garbage. They pointed two guns at me while checking my ID, made inappropriate sexual remarks and gestures and threw my luggage while destroying some of it as well. After I was done with all of this, I was not allowed to use the 'Israeli' highways, so instead of reaching my city in one hour, it took me three hours. When I finally reached my city, Israeli soldiers storm into my aunt's house and take her son (which has been home all day) and beat him up just for the fun of it. And that is all in one day. Imagine what Palestinians have to go through every single day. And people still expect them to be friendly. Yea right.
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