Hi sophiaponders, thanks for clarifying your stand. I'm going to respond as well as I can.
(06-05-2015, 02:59 AM)sophiaponders Wrote: Zionist Israel was founded on terrorism, and from its inception has been a colonial occupying racist state.
There were a lot of factors that led to the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Zionism has been around in one form or another since the Jews were dispersed from Jerusalem a couple thousand years ago. There have, however, always been Jews in so-called Palestine, but not always Arabs. If you want to go by ancestral claim, the Jews win based on history.
If you want to go by legal claim, the Jews were deeded the land by the United Nations.
If you want to go by moral claim, then the Jews, as much as any other people, deserve a land that they can hold and defend for their own safety.
If you want to go by spiritual claim, the Bible covers God's promises and covenants regarding Israel pretty thoroughly. The Quran, not that it means anything to me personally, also agrees that God gave that land to Israel.
Of course, if you don't have faith in history, laws, morality or God, then it'll be hard to sway you, I bet.
Quote:They kill Palestinians every day. They bulldoze their houses every day. They pass draconian racist laws every day. They have done so for 67 years.
That doesn't sound right at all.
Israel has Palestinian citizens that have the exact same rights as Jewish or other citizens of Israel. Palestinians have had seats in the Knesset from the very first sitting. Palestinians serve in the IDF, and they hold key positions in Israeli public service infrastructure, including two, Salim Joubran
, and Abdel Rahman Zuabi
, on the Supreme Court of Israel.
How does a racist Jewish state end up with two Arabs sitting on their highest court?
And how is it that the Jews are called racist, and the Palestinians, who are quite open about their dream of a Jew-free Palestinian state, get a pass on that kind of condemnation?
I can't comment on bulldozed homes without having any actual details. Do you have a specific case that you can show me?
Quote:Even before the state was formed, in its 'dream' phase, the father of political zionism, Theodore Herzl wrote in his diaries (which I have) in the late 1800's that they would have to drive the indigenous peoples out to have a purely 'Jewish State'.
That doesn't affect the present legitimacy of the state of Israel. Herzl died more than 40 years before Israel was born, and the fact that Israel is 20 percent non-Jewish stands against the notion of a pure Jewish state.
Quote:Hamas did not start that thing last summer, Israel did.
It's pretty well established that Israel warned Hamas many, many times that there would be consequences if they didn't stop firing rockets at Israel. All Hamas had to do was stop. Why didn't they?
Quote:FYI- i dont agree with some of the more helpless extreme tactics some of the Palestinians have tried, and in general am an advocate of non-violence. But that being said- as far as regular resistance= do not the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves too when Israel is continuously killing them, shooting at them and taking their lands even against international law?
I don't know that firing rockets at just any old Jew who happens to live within the borders of Israel qualifies as self-defense.
Quote:Apparently not according to Israel, they are referred to as 'terrorists'- though ISRAEL was founded on terrorism and any Zionist will be proud to tell you all about the Stern Gang. When they attacked the Palestinian villages in the 40's, and committed massacres, Palestinians didnt even have an army- they were defenseless.
There were massacres of Jews as well, lots of them. You can't condemn the Jews and not the Arabs, because you know that Arabs celebrate their terrorists just as much as any Zionist celebrates his.
Quote:They still arent allowed to have an army. With these types of talks of 'Israel having the right to defend themselves' in taking Palestinian land- but Palestinians being called 'terrorists' for resisting it- am wondering, how an American would react if someone tried to take their house or land or attack them for such things as Israel does and has been doing to the Palestinians now for decades? -_- its hypocrisy.
Why is an army so important? It would be useless against their only foe anyway, wouldn't you say?
Quote:And honestly, those 'rockets' are nothing. They are blown way out of proportion by Israel and the media. All they do is give Israel more opportunity for genocide, land theft and demonizing of Palestinians, really. The ones that make it past the iron dome of the 4th largest army of the world of Israel scrape the pavement and dont explode when they land in Israel.
So why are Gazans spending millions and millions of dollars on buying, building and importing these useless rockets? What's the point, if they do nothing but give Israel an excuse to kill more Palestinians?
Palestinians get more aid per capita -- much, MUCH more aid -- than any other people on the planet. They are on the receiving end of billions more after their last war with Israel. Yet they don't seem to want to spend any of it on making their lives any better. Why is that? Instead of schools, hospitals, businesses or any kind of useful public infrastructure, they use the majority of it to fight a completely useless and deadly war against Israel. Is there some reason why they won't even discuss peace? Or sign a cease-fire deal with Israel to allow some life back into the lives of Palestinians?
Is it just me, or are the Palestinians, for a people who want peace, going about it an awfully strange way?