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The Lord's Prayer
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09-11-2015, 12:39 AM #1
Robert Baird
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From another site where a person challenged me about the Diaspora and Exodus.

Dear Dr. Lee

If you never challenge or question authority and go about in respect for the lies of religion you are indeed fouling the truth. I have many sources but the tablets prove best what is true in reference to this matter. And yes, it does take the courage to forfeit one's life if one is to really learn a discipline in full as the House of David knew and still does despite all the lies put in their mouths. Here is a little for you to grasp if you get rid of whatever rose coloured glasses you seem to need.

Have you heard of the Sarmoung or Sarman Brotherhood? They were an important group of esoteric philosophers or Magi whose home in later day Persia started around 2600 BC. What is their legacy and heritage? Gurdjieff spoke of being a 'speaker' of the ancient 'verbal tradition' and I think he draws his inspiration from such alchemists as Mani (the leader of a post Christian effort to fuse Christianity and Zoroastrian ideologies). Augustine was a Manichean before his 'conversion' or should I say 'quisling sell-out'. What was their roots? Did they influence the remnants of Sumeria or were they the remnants of it? There were many outposts and brigands or leaders who followed their own ideas on the Silk Route. Some of these were considered pure legend but space photos and archaeology have proven the legends right again. I think the legends have a great deal more credibility than the Bible or other religious 'narratives'.

We have so many proofs from all scientific disciplines which can instruct our gaze into the origins of these magi. Mircae Eliade is the pre-eminent religious scholar of the 20th Century and he takes their origins way back to when man first went forth with calabash in hand to gather herbs and metals or supplements from earth such as lithium, sulphur and salt. I agree it is at least that long ago. I say it was known in the Qabala or 'Verbal Tradition' of the poets and musicians or minstrels such as you see in David who wrote the Lord's Prayer as did his descendant Solomon write other Psalms worshipped and admired by Masons and other cultists.

That Lord's Prayer as performed by Gregory Peck in the movie David and Bathsheba is something more than just a prayer. It is a decree incorporating the Law of the Magi known as Right Thought = Right Action. But when we were forced to ritually chant it in school as I grew up I dare say no teacher in Toronto could describe what that means. If you watch that movie pay close attention to some other things including how his high priest had a different god and his youthful god returned to save him from the wrath of G-d which came to others who touched the Ark of the Covenant. They died but his decree brought rain and other blessings.

Those who practise the discipline of Majik, or actually study the Bible and apocrypha will see a 'brother' in David. I include the Dag Hammadi scrolls or all ancient books destroyed by Empire including the 42 texts attributed to Hermes Trismegistus in the Septuagint or Dag Hammadi scrolls which I believe were compiled over many centuries. In every generation a child was annointed to play the harp or lyre (different instruments over tens of millennia) and keep the poems of the Bairds (Bards or BRDs) called the Verbal Tradition.

Play close attention to Bathsheba the Benjaminite and her husband Uriah the Hittite. Know the Tribes married close friends and allies and the Hittite of this era are archaeologically proven to have beaten Ramses who had writings say otherwise. The Hittites or Chatti and Hatti include later Lydia and rich people who became Etrurians and the Stuart Royals according to their historians who trace them to 25,000 years ago in the region the Sahara now resides. The Sybarites who had the largest fleet and Navy fought alongside the Etrurians at the Battle of Alalia in 525 BCE. I have a far more detailed history that those Stuart historians and I do not have any missing people disappearing or not known from whence they came. Academics quibble and refuse to study the elite families, and don't follow the money from Croessus or Midas to both of these city states which became part of the Empire of Rome.

It was only a couple of decades ago that Sybaris was found where Herodotus had said it was. Just north of Bruttium (Brutti being most important founders of Empires - Rome and Britain). It was Croton or Kroton in other languages and is where Pythagoras took his Therapeutae to live. They include the family of Jesus or Merovingians like David and Solomon or those who brought the people of the family of Goliath to Gath in their voyaging to South America. Ophir is mentioned as having a role in the building of the Temple of David in the Bible and the monk Montanus drew maps of many mines he had in the Americas. The Essenes are learned in the arts of the Therapeutae.

Every Bible story has morality plays (As does every Grail Troubador or Bardic tale) and codes for learned people to draw from. The Ark was a capacitor and conductor of energy able to house enough energy to be useful as a transmitter - and arc-transmitter to make maps with. The Logos is a key to the Lost Chord which brought down the walls of Jerico mentioned in this movie. Those walls came down the same year the walls of Miletus (ML of ML-Chhi-zadok) came down at the or near the end of the Trojan War which took place in 19 separate theatres of operation including the Americas.

It is entirely possible that I am more of a 'speaker' than Gurdjieff was.
This post was last modified: 09-11-2015, 12:41 AM by Robert Baird.
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09-11-2015, 08:00 PM #2
The Creeper
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The Lord's Prayer

Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever.

Amen.

I figured it might help to have The Lord's Prayer in a thread called The Lord's Prayer.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool – William Shakespear
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09-11-2015, 11:45 PM #3
Thy Unveiling
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Amen, and many thanks to God for making you Creeper my dear! Heart
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09-12-2015, 12:27 AM #4
Robert Baird
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Yes, that is the prayer but if you watch the movie you will see the author of that prayer use it as a decree and the results which can be achieved through at-one-ment.
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09-12-2015, 03:54 PM #5
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Am I correct in understanding you are saying that David wrote and recited this prayer?

''Haste thee on from grace to glory,
Armed by faith, and winged by prayer.
Heaven’s eternal days before thee,
God’s own hand shall guide us there.
Soon shall close thy earthly mission,
Soon shall pass thy pilgrim days,
Hope shall change to glad fruition,
Faith to sight, and prayer to praise.''
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09-29-2016, 09:32 AM #6
The Creeper
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THREAD RESURRECTION

Honestly, I couldn't understand what Baird was on about most of the time and his posts often came across as arrogant and demeaning, but every here now and then he did have something interesting to say....

....This wasn't one of those times Big Grin

What I found far more interesting is the following post from Artful Revealer

(09-28-2016, 04:26 PM)Artful Revealer Wrote:  
(09-28-2016, 04:12 PM)slave_of_God Wrote:  
Quote:Jesus prayed on his face, on his knees, standing up, looking up, hands held up, and all sorts of different ways.
Muslims put their faces on the ground, we sit on our knees, we stand up, we cup our hands together and look up just the same
Muslims do it all in the same prayer though. Jesus didn't. In fact, the verse where Jesus is allegedly prostrating:

Matt 26:39. And going a little further, he fell upon his face, praying ...

... is from the same book where Jesus said this about prayer:


6:5. And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
6:6. But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret, and thy father who seeth in secret will repay thee.
6:7. And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.
6:8. Be not you therefore like to them for your Father knoweth what is needful for you, before you ask him.
6:9. Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
6:10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
6:11. Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.
6:12. And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.
6:13. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.

I mean no offense, but it's not as if Muslims are exactly following Jesus' instructions.

This is something that I have often thought about myself...., I didn't want to derail the thread this post was made in and I am hoping a new discussion can start up here, because I would be interested to see where it goes.

I find remarkable similarities between The Lord's prayer and Al-Fatihah (the opening, the first Surah of the Qur'an)

In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds
The Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.
The Master of the Day of Recompense
It is you alone we worship and you alone we ask for help.
Guide us to the Straight Way
The way of those on whom you have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your Anger, nor of those who went astray.

Peace and blessings upon all of you Smile

This gives me far too many interesting and potentially dangerous ideas for fragile worldviews to accept. If I don't end up getting stoned or crucified someone will shoot me Big Grin
This post was last modified: 09-29-2016, 10:07 AM by The Creeper.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool – William Shakespear
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09-29-2016, 09:57 AM #7
Todd
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(09-29-2016, 09:32 AM)The Creeper Wrote:  THREAD RESURRECTION

(09-28-2016, 04:26 PM)Artful Revealer Wrote:  6:5. And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
6:6. But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret, and thy father who seeth in secret will repay thee.
6:7. And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.
6:8. Be not you therefore like to them for your Father knoweth what is needful for you, before you ask him.
6:9. Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
6:10. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
6:11. Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.
6:12. And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.
6:13. And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.

I mean no offense, but it's not as if Muslims are exactly following Jesus' instructions.

This is something that I have often thought about myself...., I didn't want to derail the thread this post was made in and I am hoping a new discussion can start up here, because I would be interested to see where it goes.

Peace and blessings upon all of you Smile

I was taught fairly early in my life that the Lord's prayer was to be used as an outline in what to pray.
 
"Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name"  begin prayer by reverencing God's name.  Acknowledging who he is.  God has many names (really titles) in the Bible that speak of who he is and what he does.  By acknowledging those titles, we remind ourselves of who God is and what he is capable of.

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
This part of prayer is about making sure we focus on what is important to God and asking him to reveal what we can do on daily basis to bring about his will on earth.  Prayer is just as much about listening as it is speaking.

"Give us this day our supersubstantial bread."
This is when we ask God for the things we need.  Not things we want, but what we need, whether it be physical/material needs, or spiritual and emotional needs/healing

"And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors"
And here is one of the most difficult and often forgotten aspects of prayer.  Asking for forgiveness from our sins, which requires introspection and acknowledgement of areas of weakness in our lives and then forgiving those who have done us wrong.  

"And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen"

This is a continuation of the introspection from the previous section.  When we acknowledge our weaknesses we can then ask for God's grace to overcome those weaknesses.  And lastly we ask God to keep us safe from the schemes of the evil one who is seeking to destroy us.  

The way I was taught was to use the above outline and add the details of our personal circumstances and situations top the outline above.  For example when you pray "lead me not into temptation" you actually acknowledge and speak what you are currently being tempted by, etc.....

because Jesus specifically says "ye may not use vain repetitions like the nations" I do not think he gave us the "Lords Prayer" to recite word for word.  It's an outline to remind us of the different topics that we should cover when we go to him in prayer.

I would find it interesting to see how the prayers of Islam fit within this outline that Jesus gave us.

Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did
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09-29-2016, 03:28 PM #8
slave_of_God
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You, Creeper Sir, deserve an award Tongue

For the most promising Muslim of the night, imho, If God Wills of course

Shy

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"My heart is at ease knowing that what was meant for me will never
miss me and that what misses me was never meant for me"
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09-29-2016, 04:15 PM #9
The Creeper
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(09-29-2016, 03:28 PM)slave_of_God Wrote:  You, Creeper Sir, deserve an award Tongue

For the most promising Muslim of the night, imho, If God Wills of course

Shy

I honestly don't feel like I am qualified or worthy.

I can poke holes in all the religions, I tend to leave Islam alone on these forums because logically, a lot of it makes total sense to me and I think it is the most accurate in its descriptions of various things. Also everybody would get right on my case about it, Muslims and islamophobes alike, this is why I study things for myself. The Qur'an connected a lot of dots for me and I didn't hesitate to take the shahada as soon as I was able to, because I believe wholeheartedly that "there is no God but The God and Muhammad was one of His Messengers". I really like Al-Husna as well. There are however, a few things that make me question because I like to know "why?" and the reasons and logic behind doing something. It is the human elements of religion that I always take issue with Rolleyes it could just be a lack of understanding or perhaps insanity, but I like to think my heart is in the right place. I really hope that nobody thinks that is any kind of dig at Muhammad (as) because I have the utmost love and respect for the man. I see a lot of disturbing things about the Ummah in this day and age and I am afraid for everyone on earth.

Not everything is black and white. I am just a guy, not worthy of any kind of pedistool. If God feels I deserve a reward, I hope to Him that I will receive it in Jannah, in sha Allah.
This post was last modified: 09-29-2016, 04:22 PM by The Creeper.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool – William Shakespear
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09-29-2016, 08:18 PM #10
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This first few verses of Mathew (6:5-8), Jesus (peace and blessing be with him) is referring to hypocrites whose greater intention is far from praying. It was and is a warning to those of pray to seek attention rather than seeking guidance. He then reveals the Lord's prayer. It is such an amazing prayer, muslims can really relate to the prayer for the content that is delivered. Jews also have similarities within their 3 daily prayers. The following is a piece of the tafsir for Surah Fatiha which can also be applied to the Lord's prayer because both emphasize the name and greatness of God....

Quote:One of the many practices taught by Islam is that its followers should begin their activities in the name of God. This principle, if consciously and earnestly followed, will necessarily yield three beneficial results. First, one will be able to restrain oneself from many misdeed, since the habit of pronouncing the name of God is bound to make one wonder when about to commit some offence how such an act can be reconciled with the saying of God's holy name. Second, if a man pronounces the name of God before starting good and legitimate tasks, this act will ensue that both his starting point and his mental orientation are sound. Third - and this is the most important benefit - when a man begins something by pronouncing God's name, he will enjoy God's support and succour; God will bless his efforts and protect him from the machinations and temptation of Satan. For whenever man turns to God, God turns to him as well.
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